Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[zerocrossing]

ATC-X. It’s an analog monosynth with Model D osc clones (2) and a quartet of classic analog filter clones (Model D, SEM, 303 and ARP) You’d think that Diva could cover it, but you’d be wrong, and Diva sounds puny and dull when trying to do the cross mod and filter FM things the ATC-X does, plus the gent’s at Studio Electronics were nice enough to throw in a third EG, which I’ve been begging Urs to add on for years. Super useful.

You've mentioned that synth a few times. I am very curious. Could you post a few examples of the sound you are talking about? I am curious how well I might match it in Diva or similar. I keep hearing things like this but yes, nobody posts anything to actually back up what they are saying. Not saying I don't believe you, or that you are wrong, I am just selfish and want to see for myself

Easy enough to find..

Funny, not a single person posts an example that can come close to these.

The first audio sounds ok, the other ones I can't bear listening to.
If we knew which patch you mean and how it was created, we could try to emulate it in softsynths. But who has the time to try and guess all that?

See? You prove my point. You’re the dude spitting out the expensive hand pulled espresso because you hate coffee. That’s fine, but if you don’t like the sound of those, then that’s the issue, not that those things aren’t worth something to someone who loves those types of sounds. Or put it into caviar terms. I personally don’t like it at all and I’m surely never going to spend money on it, but I can easily imagine those who do like it would buy it if they have the disposable income to do so.

Also, I have all the major software plugins, and I have indeed spent the time trying to see if I could get those sounds out of them, and I’ll answer for you. You can’t, at least not all of it. Is there a subset of those sounds that can be done in software? Yeah. No doubt, but there’s also 20% of it that sounds kind of lame in software and 5% of it that sounds terrible in software. The fact that you don’t like those sounds is irrelevant to me, and of course you can keep your VSTs for your needs if they serve all your desires. Software does not currently serve all my desires.

[e-crooner]

See? You prove my point. You’re the dude spitting out the expensive hand pulled espresso because you hate coffee. That’s fine, but if you don’t like the sound of those, then that’s the issue, not that those things aren’t worth something to someone who loves those types of sounds. Or put it into caviar terms. I personally don’t like it at all and I’m surely never going to spend money on it, but I can easily imagine those who do like it would buy it if they have the disposable income to do so.

Also, I have all the major software plugins, and I have indeed spent the time trying to see if I could get those sounds out of them, and I’ll answer for you. You can’t, at least not all of it. Is there a subset of those sounds that can be done in software? Yeah. No doubt, but there’s also 20% of it that sounds kind of lame in software and 5% of it that sounds terrible in software. The fact that you don’t like those sounds is irrelevant to me, and of course you can keep your VSTs for your needs if they serve all your desires. Software does not currently serve all my desires.

Well, I like musical music with unobtrusive synths in the background, not synth orgies that go in one ear and out the other without leaving any impression in between.

I don't know whether or not any softsynth can make those sounds (mine probably not, they are rather old). The problem might simply be that we don't have access to the parameters used on the hardware. So how can we even try to emulate them when a good plugin has tens or hundreds of millions of possible parameter configurations.

[anomandaris1]

Well, the Korg Wavestate is hardware, modern level, and it looks really nice!

I doubt that hardware parts of this costs more than 50 usd total, but it sells for like 800?
The interesting part is that there are not that many softsynths out there that do wavesequencing.

[BBFG#]

"It depends on the approach and it depends on the [work]. There are some [things] where a more kind of invisible sound works better. And then there are some [things] where you need a more aggressive approach."
~ Jóhann Jóhannsson (RIP 02/2018)

[zerocrossing]

See? You prove my point. You’re the dude spitting out the expensive hand pulled espresso because you hate coffee. That’s fine, but if you don’t like the sound of those, then that’s the issue, not that those things aren’t worth something to someone who loves those types of sounds. Or put it into caviar terms. I personally don’t like it at all and I’m surely never going to spend money on it, but I can easily imagine those who do like it would buy it if they have the disposable income to do so.

Also, I have all the major software plugins, and I have indeed spent the time trying to see if I could get those sounds out of them, and I’ll answer for you. You can’t, at least not all of it. Is there a subset of those sounds that can be done in software? Yeah. No doubt, but there’s also 20% of it that sounds kind of lame in software and 5% of it that sounds terrible in software. The fact that you don’t like those sounds is irrelevant to me, and of course you can keep your VSTs for your needs if they serve all your desires. Software does not currently serve all my desires.

Well, I like musical music with unobtrusive synths in the background, not synth orgies that go in one ear and out the other without leaving any impression in between.

I also think that your taste in sound sucks and that you are incapable of appreciating good sound.

I don't know whether or not any softsynth can make those sounds (mine probably not, they are rather old). The problem might simply be that we don't have access to the parameters used on the hardware. So how can we even try to emulate them when a good plugin has tens or hundreds of millions of possible parameter configurations.

Well, what I do is to distill things down to a handful of important sound types. This way I’m not chasing features, though features can also be important. For instance, Diva, great as it is, does not have a third EG. I’ll do basic tests that involve filter FM, resonance, cross mod, oscillator sync and the like.

[Cro-magnon]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I agree 100% with the story about the tube amps,but if one doesn't feel this rich,deep,powerful sound of an Omega8 in comparison to a plugin,he's half deaf or shows bad faith.
The difference when you're playing with cross modulations and audio range modulations is even more obvious.

[yul]

Yes, I don't own any hardware at this point

I love hardware but their marketing seems accurately formulated to maximize their revenues vs my enjoyment. There is always something missing that can only be alleviated by throwing more money. + I don't do vintage.

I went through a few items over the last year or so but they never lasted. Still looking though. Jupiter XM is a contender but my senses are telling me this is a big risk.

Not looking at having anything exact but rather stuff that sounds great is what I am going for now.

[e-crooner]

I also think that your taste in sound sucks and that you are incapable of appreciating good sound

Well, what is good sound?

Well, what I do is to distill things down to a handful of important sound types. This way I’m not chasing features, though features can also be important. For instance, Diva, great as it is, does not have a third EG. I’ll do basic tests that involve filter FM, resonance, cross mod, oscillator sync and the like.

Yes, for more experimental stuff I would use something like Tal Mod with all its modulation options.

[zerocrossing]

Just for fun, I pulled up RePro and tried to replicate the first factory (though tweaked) preset on my Prophet 6. There’s no way to do it. Sound aside, Repro doesn’t have the features and flexibility to achieve this pretty simple sound. No sub oscillator and no way to assign aftertouch to LFO amount were the features missing. So, while y’all are exalting software instruments for their superior functionality, in this simple case, software fails. Could Urs add it and not blow up CPU usage? Probably not. It’s already pretty high, and if he had to calculate another analog filter, and especially the fact that it can be modulated at audio rate in the poly mod section, it would most likely bring even the best CPUs to their knees.

[ScrLk]

Just for fun, I pulled up my Prophet 5 and tried to replicate the first factory (though tweaked) preset on my Prophet 6. There’s no way to do it. Sound aside, my Prophet 5 doesn’t have the features and flexibility to achieve this pretty simple sound. No sub oscillator and no way to assign aftertouch to LFO amount were the features missing. So, while y’all are exalting hardware instruments for their superior functionality, in this simple case, hardware fails.

[AnX]

Just for fun, I pulled up RePro and tried to replicate the first factory (though tweaked) preset on my Prophet 6. There’s no way to do it. Sound aside, Repro doesn’t have the features and flexibility to achieve this pretty simple sound.

is Repro an emulation of the Prophet 6?

[ScrLk]

It's an emulation of the Prophet 5...

[e-crooner]

Just for fun, I pulled up RePro and tried to replicate the first factory (though tweaked) preset on my Prophet 6. There’s no way to do it. Sound aside, Repro doesn’t have the features and flexibility to achieve this pretty simple sound. No sub oscillator and no way to assign aftertouch to LFO amount were the features missing. So, while y’all are exalting software instruments for their superior functionality, in this simple case, software fails. Could Urs add it and not blow up CPU usage? Probably not. It’s already pretty high, and if he had to calculate another analog filter, and especially the fact that it can be modulated at audio rate in the poly mod section, it would most likely bring even the best CPUs to their knees.

Theoretically, you could use osc B as an LFO and then set up a modulation: AT -> Voice Modulation -> Osc B Amount.
But of course that is very clumsy and you only have one osc left.

In Retrologue all that is a piece of cake.

[AnX]

It's an emulation of the Prophet 5...

it was a rhetorical question.... but, FYI, its 1 and 5, depending on which one you use (he didn't say)

[ReleaseCandidate]

It's an emulation of the Prophet 5...

it was a rhetorical question.... but, FYI, its 1 and 5, depending on which one you use (he didn't say)

1 and 5 is 6! (at least in all relevant groups)