Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[goldenanalog]

Btw. when I was younger (yes, quite some time ago) I had a B1, that _really_ hasn't been emulated by any softsynth until today!

effn' A!

This would be a blast: buy 5 of these for next to nothing - then using the circuit bent philosophy where everything that's subject to a hammer & ewaste is fair game: midify them (!) and hook them all up to the same keyboard controller running them all at once (and don't tell anybody here what evil you're up to )

- record audio examples; post them here; THEN ask all the audio experts on KVR to guess which vsti plugin you used -

[goldenanalog]

Well, the Korg Wavestate is hardware, modern level, and it looks really nice!

Yeah, this is interesting to me as well!

I was looking at this a few months ago: seems like a ridiculously powerful updated/expanded hardware interpretation of the original Wavestation - but the problem with a lot of hardware - likely including this beauty and beast - is that most of it is "fixed in time" as in: it ain't gonna likely be anything more then what it was at the time that you bought it - whereas software instruments are going to ever increase and morph in every imaginable way that you can think of.

[BONES]

I see that as a definite advantage when it comes to hardware. In my experience, updates are just as likely to ruin a piece of software as to improve it. Hive and DUNE demonstrate this well.

[revvy]

My Korg Electribe Sampler got miles better after a firmware update improved it. HW can get meaningful updates, as does most SW IMO.

[goldenanalog]

My primary axe is still my Korg M3 - it’s was improved by primarily software expanders (sound sets) released back in the day - it’s a good reliable all-rounder as a gigging instrument; but it’s no Kronos - and never will it be.

By comparison/example: there’s Synapses’ Dune the original - and Dune 3 - they share some attributes; but Dune 3 is light-years beyond ‘Dune 1’

Dune 3 was no-brainer obtainable because Richard is always very reasonable with his upgrade costs - again by comparison: my M3 would sell for a fraction of its original price if I wanted to “upgrade” to a Kronos from my M3.

[goldenanalog]

- and I still have Dune 1! No real sacrifice involved other then a little $$$.

Upgrading to better hardware is rarely a lateral/break-even move cost-wise. And even tho upgradeable firmware is the rule: there are aspects of any piece of hardware that will never change such as the UI (touchscreens excepted) and ports, etc.

[goldenanalog]

Of course it depends on when you upgrade: if you sell a piece of hardware before it’s market EOL and before the next gen is announced: you could lose little $ thru the transition. But in the case of my M3: fuggetaboutit - it’s too old/too available; nothing anyone else would really want. And the touch screens go bad; so there’s that.

[AnX]

Here’s an anecdote....

good story, and good job avoiding the point...

[BONES]

By comparison/example: there’s Synapses’ Dune the original - and Dune 3 - they share some attributes; but Dune 3 is light-years beyond ‘Dune 1’

And yet there is a persistent thread here extolling the virtues of DUNE 1 over D3, so clearly not everyone agrees with you. Although for me it was the upgrade to D2 that ruined DUNE, which was already teetering on the edge, workflow wise.

And even tho upgradeable firmware is the rule: there are aspects of any piece of hardware that will never change such as the UI (touchscreens excepted) and ports, etc.

Not necessarily. An update to Uno improved the UI by giving users access to more features from the front panel.

Of course it depends on when you upgrade: if you sell a piece of hardware before it’s market EOL and before the next gen is announced: you could lose little $ thru the transition.

I reckon I could make money on some of my hardware. The trick is not to buy it new but to find a good second-hand bargain.

[AnX]

By comparison/example: there’s Synapses’ Dune the original - and Dune 3 - they share some attributes; but Dune 3 is light-years beyond ‘Dune 1’

And yet there is a persistent thread here extolling the virtues of DUNE 1 over D3....

its just a handful of tight wads who don't want to pay the upgrade, and also some entitled clowns insisting SA re-release D1 for free

[goldenanalog]

You makes some good points, BONES.

But let’s break this down even further:

‘Dune 1’ is not even available for sale on the Synapse website anymore! That’s because Richard stopped supporting it; because there was no longer any demand for it.

Trust me, BONES: the current interest in the original Dune software instrument is new - probably to the great surprise of Richard himself! And really is a strong argument that music software instrument interests are likely subject to the same forces that drive the fashion industry. Different consumer base, that’s all.

Gives you access to more features is good! But it is still extremely subject to limitations: I remember well Ensoniq’s ASR- X: was it build 3.67(?) that hit-the-wall with what could be done with the hardware - I don’t exactly remember. the rumor was that the space in the hardware for builds was so limited at that point, that it had to be hand-coded in order to work: ASM torturous stuff. In other words: there are always limitations imposed by the firmware space available, if nothing else. And more complexity = more bugs in nature.

As a comparison: look at SynthMaster - one of the brilliant achievements in software instruments, imho. If Bulent had been straddled with early 2000’s firmware sizes: he’d be effed - his masterpiece has been thru 100’s of revisions, quite literally.

[excuse me please]

Well, if I were into siftware, then I'd always leave some bugs in it.

[goldenanalog]

I agree with this, BONES:

“I reckon I could make money on some of my hardware. The trick is not to buy it new but to find a good second-hand bargain.”

But time = money, correct? So if it costs you a lot of your time to find that needle in a haystack: you’ve paid for it; just in a different way then $. Plus there’s risk: most of the time it’s distance buying; unless you “know someone” who works in a music store. Warranty? Support? I’d have questions. And even if you can get your money back because you bought a lemon: that’s still your time; and can be a hassle if it wasn’t a local purchase.

[goldenanalog]

UPS *destroyed* a Kurzweil K2000 that a friend of mine sent me to keep; buy at a ridiculously friendly price. Hell: the chips added into it cost a lot more then what he wanted. I was the “going to a good home” buyer for this treasure (not exaggerating)

Here’s the deal: even tho the instrument was insured for his sell price, f**king UPS took almost a YEAR to pay him his insurance - they just kept jerking him around, best guess is hoping that he’d quit.

So point being that sometimes distance buying can go terribly terribly wrong. Buying that deal that you can use for a while and then flip for more $$$ has real risks attached.

[AnX]

anything that is posted can get damaged/trashed, new or used....