Why you left Bitwig?

[Trensharo]

Most people picking Bitwig are doing so because Ableton Live is overpriced - particularly if they don't use it for live performance (as much of the price is a tax on that market, where Live is dominant).

So, I don't expect them to choose Cubase. I used Cubase as an example because it has a predictable yearly release schedule for paid updates.

I hardly think about price when it comes to DAW's as any of them are insignificant in the long run.

My Waldorf Quantum costs more than 30 years of keeping Bitwig current

Most people buying a DAW are hobbyists and enthusiasts, not professionals.

And price matters to them.

They shouldn't care what matters to you, unless you're buying it for them.

[antic604]

Most people buying a DAW are hobbyists and enthusiasts, not professionals.

You have it backwards. Hobbyists will spend unreasonably, want to stay current and often jump back & forth. Pros make an economic analysis of cost vs. revenue and stick to the version that they got used to & is working.

[apoclypse]

Most people buying a DAW are hobbyists and enthusiasts, not professionals.

You have it backwards. Hobbyists will spend unreasonably, want to stay current and often jump back & forth. Pros make an economic analysis of cost vs. revenue and stick to the version that they got used to & is working.

It's both. Some hobbyist just want to make music, maybe they don't have a lot of cash to spend on hardware and software. They are just starting out and buying stuff is expensive so they look for the most cost effective solution. Some hobbyist are "prosumers" who think they are pro and spend money like they think pros do, usually they get suckered into spending way more than they need to, ie. see gamer focused hardware. Throw in some pretty lights, a slick video, a rad design and they will buy it.

[pdxindy]

Most people picking Bitwig are doing so because Ableton Live is overpriced - particularly if they don't use it for live performance (as much of the price is a tax on that market, where Live is dominant).

So, I don't expect them to choose Cubase. I used Cubase as an example because it has a predictable yearly release schedule for paid updates.

I hardly think about price when it comes to DAW's as any of them are insignificant in the long run.

My Waldorf Quantum costs more than 30 years of keeping Bitwig current

Most people buying a DAW are hobbyists and enthusiasts, not professionals.

And price matters to them.

They shouldn't care what matters to you, unless you're buying it for them.

You should see all the expensive gear that hobbyist photographers buy. I often see hobbyists with more expensive gear than many pro photographers (being one of them).

It is the same with audio gear, instruments like guitars, synths etc.

Nor should they care what matters to you or your opinions...

[Trensharo]

Most people picking Bitwig are doing so because Ableton Live is overpriced - particularly if they don't use it for live performance (as much of the price is a tax on that market, where Live is dominant).

So, I don't expect them to choose Cubase. I used Cubase as an example because it has a predictable yearly release schedule for paid updates.

I hardly think about price when it comes to DAW's as any of them are insignificant in the long run.

My Waldorf Quantum costs more than 30 years of keeping Bitwig current

Most people buying a DAW are hobbyists and enthusiasts, not professionals.

And price matters to them.

They shouldn't care what matters to you, unless you're buying it for them.

You should see all the expensive gear that hobbyist photographers buy. I often see hobbyists with more expensive gear than many pro photographers (being one of them).

It is the same with audio gear, instruments like guitars, synths etc.

Nor should they care what matters to you or your opinions...

A lot of that is FOMO. Because professionals protect their craft by telling people how much better their gear is than the lower-end stuff, people at the lower end of the market buy the higher end gear so that they can ensure they're getting the highest quality output from their gear. They may not be able to, due to a skill and knowledge gap, but this is never really indicated in most discussions.

Of course, if they have the disposable income to afford it, no one can fault them that. They worked for it. Good for them. It's still a practical waste, but if they are dedicated to their interests, there is potential for them to grow into it. I wouldn't recommend going into debt for it, though.

I don't even think buying a DAW for $4-500 is much of an afront, anyway, even for a hobbyist. Being able to tap into massive ecosystems of educational material is a bit deal for a lot of these people - to the point that... frankly... it's worth paying the premium for a DAW like Ableton Live or Pro Tools.

I think things get a bit more ridiculous when it comes to the Plugins and Virtual Instruments, as people seem to think you need Omnisphere, Serum, FabFilter, Komplete, etc. to make good music - due to what they read on Reddit and forums. Music production industry has a huge issue with "bandwagon." Once something gets "popular" or a popular producer name pushes it, everyone jumps on that wagon and goes for a ride.

[antic604]

...Some hobbyist are "prosumers" who think they are pro and spend money like they think pros do, usually they get suckered into spending way more than they need to, ie. see gamer focused hardware. Throw in some pretty lights, a slick video, a rad design and they will buy it.

It's not fair to think most people getting the more expensive DAWs/plugins/gear are really so gullible to think this stuff will make them more 'pro' or make their music better.

Fact of the matter is that (often, not always) more expensive stuff is just better - more user friendly, more flexible, more feature-complete, with better support, etc. Like with cars or clothing, I prefer to pay more for quality and reliability, rather than cheap out and have to replace stuff, have it fixed or work around limitations all the time.

Looking at the time I'd have to spend configuring it and tweaking (which I know would be endless for me), I can't afford Reaper - as an example

[machinesworking]

I think one thing that's completely baffling to me about the world of DAWs, electronic music in general is how much more obsessed people are with the distinction between Pro and Hobbyist.

I played in rock bands, electronic music bands, of all types all of my life, and only one of the bands ever had any intention of "making it", none of us ever thought of ourselves as "hobbyists". The conversation was always underground VS bands attempting mainstream acceptance and fame.

It's just a sad state of affairs to me, that this conversation comes up so often. I've hung out with and known quite a few "professional" musicians, multi platinum recording artists, and none of them ever had this sort of hang up. The only place I ever felt or seen that sort of weird hierarchical attempt is with roadies, guys that run the mixer for big rock shows etc. You occasionally get someone who thinks like this.

[machinesworking]

Fact of the matter is that (often, not always) more expensive stuff is just better - more user friendly, more flexible, more feature-complete, with better support, etc. Like with cars or clothing, I prefer to pay more for quality and reliability, rather than cheap out and have to replace stuff, have it fixed or work around limitations all the time.

Looking at the time I'd have to spend configuring it and tweaking (which I know would be endless for me), I can't afford Reaper - as an example

Hard to say outright. Komplete is cheap for what it is, because it's well advertised and marketed, the bulk sales allow NI to sell at a bargain, and it's not worse than what it competes against.

I bought MIDIQuest 12 a sysex librarian with sysex VST plug ins for hardware into your DAW and hardware patch naming in various DAWs etc. It's barley stable, it's one guy in Canada, he struggles to keep it up, and it's not cheap.

Mostly the market determines the price, and that includes customer perception.

Consider the UX faux pas that is Live Suite. I'm not trying to pick on them, but Ableton IMO lost the plot a bit with v8 and Max4Live. There's nothing about Max/MSP that's intuitive and immediate gratification oriented, it's a long game tool, grafted onto what was once the most UX oriented DAW. To this day Live is embedded in the cultural milieu as the most ergonomic smoothest from start to finish modern electronic music DAW. Personally I don't buy it, it's like it's supposed predecessors, grafted together out of feature requests and competition into a specific workflow that you have to have, to enjoy using it, and it's near the most expensive DAW out of the door.

Specifically with software it's almost impossible to determine by price what the UX or personal usability is going to be for you.

To contradict that, there are things like Altiverb that just do what they say they do, are dead easy to use and are expensive. It's just a whole universe of contradicting price points, I think of what I use and only a few plug ins were over $150, Altiverb and Falcon, that's about it. I got Equator 2, Pigments, Zebra 2, Hive, Lion etc. etc. for under $100...

[antic604]

Hard to say outright...

Obviously. Therefore I'm not advocating always going for the paid or most expensive thing, because price doesn't always go hand in hand with quality (as I said). But there's this notion going on around that 'hobbyists' should use free DAWs and plugins (or at most Reaper + $20 Vital ) because if you don't make money on music you shouldn't spend money on making it.

I personally prefer spending $400 on Live, Bitwig or Reason that reduce to the minimum number of options and choices I need to make and - coincidentally - work for me in terms of overall workflow preference, than shell out $60 for Reaper that I need to mold & shape for it to be barely usable (for my needs, obviously).

[ReleaseCandidate]

Most people picking Bitwig are doing so because Ableton Live is overpriced - particularly if they don't use it for live performance (as much of the price is a tax on that market, where Live is dominant).

So, I don't expect them to choose Cubase. I used Cubase as an example because it has a predictable yearly release schedule for paid updates.

I hardly think about price when it comes to DAW's as any of them are insignificant in the long run.

My Waldorf Quantum costs more than 30 years of keeping Bitwig current

Most people buying a DAW are hobbyists and enthusiasts, not professionals.

And price matters to them.

They shouldn't care what matters to you, unless you're buying it for them.

You should see all the expensive gear that hobbyist photographers buy. I often see hobbyists with more expensive gear than many pro photographers (being one of them).

It is the same with audio gear, instruments like guitars, synths etc.

That's because most of the professional musicians (and photographs), except some, make less money than many hobbyists have at their disposal.
But in general most of the music hobbyists don't (and can't) spend that much - they also don't visit internet forums, that helps too .

[johnwoo]

Because is still a very young DAW , missing features that other DAW give you for granted already ... Yes is a Good DAW , I like it a lot but I'm using it only for fun right now , main Daw is Presonus Studio One V5 ....

[antic604]

...missing features that other DAW give you for granted already...

This is also true the other way around, though. If you'd start with Bitwig and switched elsewhere, you might be surprised they don't offer 'obvious' basic features like modularity/modulators, hybrid tracks, plugin sandboxing, touch screen integration, clip launching, native environment to build instruments & FX, etc.

It's a matter of perspective

[uOpt]

The price is more significant (even if it comes out to $10/month) if it is not your main DAW and you use it only occasionally. For me every hour of using Bitwig comes to a pretty substantial price > $30 or somesuch.

[antic604]

The price is more significant (even if it comes out to $0/month) if it is not your main DAW and you use it only occasionally. For me every hour of using Bitwig comes to a pretty substantial price > $30 or somesuch.

Someone forced you to buy it?

Also, how have you calculated that? Considering the usual - wrong - assumtion that Bitwig costs $169 / year, are you saying you're using it 5h / year. If so, then get rid of it.

[pdxindy]

The price is more significant (even if it comes out to $0/month) if it is not your main DAW and you use it only occasionally. For me every hour of using Bitwig comes to a pretty substantial price > $30 or somesuch.

So you use Bitwig about 4 hours a year... yeah, that would be a high cost!