KVR Audio

SteffenPL · Post by **SteffenPL** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:15 pm

Hi,

I'm a math PhD student trying to learn sound design (for fun).
I saw in Urs' blog that some innovations behind their soft-synths are also related to math (https://urs.silvrback.com/zero-delay-feedback). However, most of the tutorials online mention just the basic math behind filters/oscillators but don't go further with it.

I wanted to ask if there are good tutorials/books which emphasise and use advanced mathematical concepts in sound design? (I found the "Synth Secrets" already and I love it!) Once I have more experience, I would also enjoy programming some VST-plugins myself, but I'm certainly not experienced enough yet

However, if programming a plugin is a good way to get experience from the ground up, I would also consider that.

uOpt · Post by **uOpt** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm

You are probably best of studying the source code of an open source synth.

panictank · Post by **panictank** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:10 pm

You can take a look at the DSP literature. For example, A Digital Signal Processing Primer: with Applications to Digital Audio and Computer Music by Kenneth Steiglitz.

SteffenPL · Post by **SteffenPL** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:49 pm

panictank wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:10 pm You can take a look at the DSP literature. For example, A Digital Signal Processing Primer: with Applications to Digital Audio and Computer Music by Kenneth Steiglitz.

That looks very much like what I am looking for! DSP literature seems to be the keyword I was missing. Thanks for the hint

BlitBit · Post by **BlitBit** » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:56 pm

Because you mention zero delay feedback you might also be interested in these two texts by Vadim Zavalishin:

You asked for mathy stuff.

mattfourmat · Post by **mattfourmat** » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:48 am

Check out max for live or pure data, I’m sure you can do something maths based with those applications

bronlund · Post by **bronlund** » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:33 pm

Audacity lets you program stuff right in the editor. Great for prototyping math formulas. Check out: https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/int ... mming.html

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:27 pm

The MATLAB audio toolbox and their other dsp tools are what you need.

SteffenPL · Post by **SteffenPL** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:00 am

bronlund wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:33 pm Audacity lets you program stuff right in the editor. Great for prototyping math formulas. Check out: https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/int ... mming.html

Wow, Audacity is more versatile than I thought!
Actually, my entry to computer music was Extempore, https://extemporelang.github.io/.
(Since it's also derived from Lisp, it looks kind of similar.)

Thanks for the many comments. I don't have access to a MATLAB licence anymore. I tried out some phase modulation in PureData, it's quite cool.

All in all, I must say that it's too hard for me right now to start from the fundamental level. In the end, I want to make nice-sounding music. So, I don't mind to use VSTs to get a feeling for what I want to achieve before starting to program.

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:47 am

FTR, MATLAB has a $150 Home version now and the Audio toolkit lets you make and host VSTs.

Klinke · Post by **Klinke** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:10 am

Faust is also an interesting option for (functional) programmers: https://faustdoc.grame.fr/. It transpile to C++ (and a lot of other targets) and has also a VST-Wrapper, so it's relative easy to build your own plugin.

SteffenPL · Post by **SteffenPL** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:27 pm

Klinke wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:10 am Faust is also an interesting option for (functional) programmers: https://faustdoc.grame.fr/. It transpile to C++ (and a lot of other targets) and has also a VST-Wrapper, so it's relative easy to build your own plugin.

I expected VST programming to be much harder! (I love C++, but each new project usually comes with quite some initial investment and infamous linker errors.)
Faust's online demo/playground has already really nice sounds (For example the singing bowl) and I'm actually like the physical modelling aspects (my math field is close to numerics of ODE/PDE).

It is possible to use faust-vst and still get to the point of actually making music?
Or will each individual sound take very long to be created?

uOpt · Post by **uOpt** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:51 pm

SteffenPL wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:00 am Actually, my entry to computer music was Extempore, https://extemporelang.github.io/.
(Since it's also derived from Lisp, it looks kind of similar.)

woah, that is quite impressive, or insane

[youtube][/youtube]

Klinke · Post by **Klinke** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:12 pm

SteffenPL wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:27 pm It is possible to use faust-vst and still get to the point of actually making music?
Or will each individual sound take very long to be created?

I'm not sure if I understand your questions. When you make your tools for creating music by yourself, of course there is a risk that you spent more time in making tools then music. In my case, I would estimate that I split my time half/half. But if you have fun while working on your tools, who cares?

And sharing your tools can make you a lot of friends (e.g. a lot of people are using the Mackie Control extension I wrote for Reaper).

Klinke · Post by **Klinke** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:24 pm

uOpt wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:51 pm
SteffenPL wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:00 am Actually, my entry to computer music was Extempore, https://extemporelang.github.io/.
(Since it's also derived from Lisp, it looks kind of similar.)
woah, that is quite impressive, or insane

[youtube][/youtube]

TidalCycles (https://tidalcycles.org/Welcome) is also really great (and seems to have a more active userbase and developments), and it's tight binding to SuperCollider makes it an interesting option for people who want to code own fx/instruments (I'm aware that Extempore also allows this).

How to use math (and programming) in sound design?