Reason+ = subscription model (20€ month)

[v1o]

Yes...these are exactly my fears.

Understand, I have been a fanboy of PH's for a LONG time. I have recommended and defended them many times. Even in their most feeble of times (all recent years) I have defended their actions. Saying that they have a "bi-system" is not relevant because their original formula is COMPLETELY gone.

The most powerful thing I have read here was someone mentioning that Reason will stand on its DAW capabilities alone. This is what I fear. Like I said, Nuendo is my primary DAW (Live is my secondary). I have always used Reason through ReWire. It has been a fantastic tool when used this way. It is why I keep older versions of Reason on my machine.

When that dropped, they gave us a plugin that was inferior to ReWire. I should have seen this coming. Sad.

I have to agree. The rack plugin is inferior to ReWire. My main DAW's were Studio One & Live on PC. Switching now back to Mac it will be Logic Pro going forward predominantly. I have been with Propellerheads since day one. I fear that Reason will go the way of Opcode for me. I invested years & money into Opcode & then it was just gone. I don't imagine them keeping a "standard" version around for long. Subscriptions is the way software is going & has been going now for some time.

I find myself now quite hesitant to invest further into RE's. I am sure I am not alone in this which means fewer developers will stick around & continue to produce quality RE's. I have the added question of whether V11 will ever support Apple Silicon natively with V12 due out later in the year. So if I want to continue to use Reason, I will have to upgrade to V12. For now, I am on a wait & see going forward.

Personally I found ReWire to be cumbersome and inconvenient. Having to run two DAWs concurrently, remembering to launch the host before the slave, having to maintain two different project files, mixing in two daws and then constantly flipping between windows. In what ways do you find the RRP to be inferior?

[antic604]

Too bad they didn’t make this clear during the livestream—they certainly had enough time.

They made it clear from the start.

There are 2 ways of getting Reason now:

• perpetual, i.e. traditional way: you buy Reason upgrades when they're out (that will include new features, some new devices and new sound content), you buy REs and refills; you "own" all of it forever
• "+" subscription: you pay $/EUR/GBP20 / month and you always get the newest Reason version + all Reason Studios' REs (maybe some 3rd party REs, too) + weekly soundpacks; you can obviously buy 3rd party REs, too. When you stop paying, you only keep access to stuff you bought in a perpetual/traditional way, which includes 11 Suite extra devices

It's really simple.

If it would be simple it would mean that suite 11 owners can get everything but the sounds in the next upgrade. If you have to a) pay 120€? for upgrade to 12 standard and in addition also buy some individual devices to upgrade to full 12, or b) subscribe to the Reason+, I think they will lose a big part of their loyal userbase. Not because I'm angry, but because I really do.

And for me my suite devices are not "extra devices", suite devices are suite devices.

It's all in your head and you made it up.

Suite was never mean to be "Reason everything", because e.g. it wasn't including PX7, A-List stuff for example. Suite was just Reason 11 + a bundle of cheaper, old Reason Studios' REs.

Suite devices are "extra devices", because I don't have Suite and I have all of those devices. I was just stupid to buy them full price, you got them EUR20 a pop.

You don't have to "buy some individual devices to upgrade to full 12". There's no such thing as "full 12". When there's 12, it's 11 Standard + new features, devices & sounds. If you want additional devices (included in "+") you'll just have to buy them from the shop. Just like with 11 Standard/Suite - everyone got Beat Map for "free", but everyone have to buy Friktion or Pattern Mutator separately separately if they want them.

For the last time - you people construct some weird schemes that RS is supposedly plotting and get worked up by figments of your own imagination

[v1o]

Suite can now go on the scrap heap along with Alihoopa, Ignition, Balance, Europa VST and Reason Compact. Maybe + will go there too in a few years time.

Lol. Let's get a few things clear. Europa VST was replaced by RRP - as Europa is included in lite versions of Reason. Reason Compact is still available in the App Store - last updated in December. Ignition key is just another name for the generic CMstick dongle, they're not discontinued - you can still buy them from Wibu.

Allihoopa and Balance are the only genuine flops. But other companies like NI have discontinued way more products like Pro52, B4, Kore, Maschine Jam, Vokator, Audio Kontrol etc etc. Sometimes things don't work out its normal.

[Lazarus451]

Too bad they didn’t make this clear during the livestream—they certainly had enough time.

They made it clear from the start.

There are 2 ways of getting Reason now:

• perpetual, i.e. traditional way: you buy Reason upgrades when they're out (that will include new features, some new devices and new sound content), you buy REs and refills; you "own" all of it forever
• "+" subscription: you pay $/EUR/GBP20 / month and you always get the newest Reason version + all Reason Studios' REs (maybe some 3rd party REs, too) + weekly soundpacks; you can obviously buy 3rd party REs, too. When you stop paying, you only keep access to stuff you bought in a perpetual/traditional way, which includes 11 Suite extra devices

It's really simple.

If it would be simple it would mean that suite 11 owners can get everything but the sounds in the next upgrade. If you have to a) pay 120€? for upgrade to 12 standard and in addition also buy some individual devices to upgrade to full 12, or b) subscribe to the Reason+, I think they will lose a big part of their loyal userbase. Not because I'm angry, but because I really do.

And for me my suite devices are not "extra devices", suite devices are suite devices.

It's all in your head and you made it up.

Suite was never mean to be "Reason everything", because e.g. it wasn't including PX7, A-List stuff for example. Suite was just Reason 11 + a bundle of cheaper, old Reason Studios' REs.

Suite devices are "extra devices", because I don't have Suite and I have all of those devices. I was just stupid to buy them full price, you got them EUR20 a pop.

You don't have to "buy some individual devices to upgrade to full 12". There's no such thing as "full 12". When there's 12, it's 11 Standard + new features, devices & sounds. If you want additional devices (included in "+") you'll just have to buy them from the shop. Just like with 11 Standard/Suite - everyone got Beat Map for "free", but everyone have to buy Friktion or Pattern Mutator separately separately if they want them.

For the last time - you people construct some weird schemes that RS is supposedly plotting and get worked up by figments of your own imagination

Ok. I have to admit that I'm not a Reason expert and did not know that Suite versions did not include all the devices made by Reason Studios when rolled out. I was thinking that it was the best way to get the new devices (made by reason studios). In Arturia for exaple you get the new synths when the new V-collection hits the market.

Edit. For example I thought that I got the new devices (made by reason studios) released between 10 and 11 when I got the Reason 11 suite.

[zoidkirb]

Suite can now go on the scrap heap along with Alihoopa, Ignition, Balance, Europa VST and Reason Compact. Maybe + will go there too in a few years time.

Lol. Let's get a few things clear. Europa VST was replaced by RRP - as Europa is included in lite versions of Reason. Reason Compact is still available in the App Store - last updated in December. Ignition key is just another name for the generic CMstick dongle, they're not discontinued - you can still buy them from Wibu.

Allihoopa and Balance are the only genuine flops. But other companies like NI have discontinued way more products like Pro52, B4, Kore, Maschine Jam, Vokator, Audio Kontrol etc etc. Sometimes things don't work out its normal.

You got me, I was being a tad hyperbolic. But I don't think you're painting a much rosier picture tbh
Compact looks barely on live support, perhaps awaiting a clutch organ transplant. And I don't think NI is the best of role models...although maybe from their point of view they do more right than wrong.

[beltrom]

Ok. I have to admit that I'm not a Reason expert and did not know that Suite versions did not include all the devices made by Reason Studios when rolled out.

But it's not really an argument, compare NI Komplete for example.
Also - what wasn't included (like PX7) seems to have had some special license as they are discontinuing those.

I agree with antic604 though that I haven't seen them confirm or claim that suite was an upgrade path. They also didn't do the reverse and say that it wasn't. I honestly think that they weren't sure themselves at the time what to do with it.

[k-tronix]

Too bad they didn’t make this clear during the livestream—they certainly had enough time.

They made it clear from the start.

There are 2 ways of getting Reason now:

• perpetual, i.e. traditional way: you buy Reason upgrades when they're out (that will include new features, some new devices and new sound content), you buy REs and refills; you "own" all of it forever
• "+" subscription: you pay $/EUR/GBP20 / month and you always get the newest Reason version + all Reason Studios' REs (maybe some 3rd party REs, too) + weekly soundpacks; you can obviously buy 3rd party REs, too. When you stop paying, you only keep access to stuff you bought in a perpetual/traditional way, which includes 11 Suite extra devices

It's really simple.

I never heard them provide clarity to that degree and when I put it to the moderator in the livestream, that individual confirmed that the license update would NOT include any REs. In the meantime, the workday got in the way of being able to research their website. Again, the company could have put up a single graphic to make this clear in place of the banter and droning on about sound packs.

[antic604]

In Arturia for exaple you get the new synths when the new V-collection hits the market.

That's not true. I'm on V6 and I'm missing 5 or 6 new synths (and probably some minor updates to synths I do have in V6) added in V7 and V8, until I upgrade.

Edit. For example I thought that I got the new devices (made by reason studios) released between 10 and 11 when I got the Reason 11 suite.

That's true, but not because the rule was "you get everything that was released in the meantime", but just because they decided at the time that Suite will be composed of certain devices, that included those released between 10 and 11.

It was never said 12 Suite would include all RE devices added between 11 Suite and 12 Suite, either.

It was never even said there will be Suite other than 11.

I'm really stunned by the negative feedback. What RS did is exactly the same what Presonus did with Sphere and somehow I don't see a backlash there

[antic604]

I never heard them provide clarity to that degree and when I put it to the moderator in the livestream, that individual confirmed that the license update would NOT include any REs. In the meantime, the workday got in the way of being able to research their website. Again, the company could have put up a single graphic to make this clear in place of the banter and droning on about sound packs.

Because the stream was chaotic and in particular the C-level guys were terrible, Tim especially.

It's enough to read the 2 statements that are in Reason's blog + see the 90s video + NOT assume malicious intent from RS to understand how all of this is supposed to work.

[k-tronix]

I never heard them provide clarity to that degree and when I put it to the moderator in the livestream, that individual confirmed that the license update would NOT include any REs. In the meantime, the workday got in the way of being able to research their website. Again, the company could have put up a single graphic to make this clear in place of the banter and droning on about sound packs.

Because the stream was chaotic and in particular the C-level guys were terrible, Tim especially.

It's enough to read the 2 statements that are in Reason's blog + see the 90s video + NOT assume malicious intent from RS to understand how all of this is supposed to work.

Thanks for pointing to their blog, which does indeed provide the clarity:
https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/intr ... eason-plus

[melime]

hey
you know whats really bad ... that if you have usb ignition key or the not in the making anymore usb interface and you have authorized reason so you dont need to be online to use the program ( that in its self is crazy ) that you have to deauthorize from the stick or interface or your computer to use the program you have paid for wth is going on with these companys lately ( what have they been drinking !!!) you can not use the subscription Reason+ Rackextensions because you have to be online . I would suggest to BOYCOT everything that needs internet to be used . I am going to get a Mixing Console and MPC Style based Samplers and Synths and some Real Instruments and my Trusty ATARI ST with Cubase. And be done with these Companys ( its just Software we are Talking about ) !

[antic604]

hey
you know whats really bad ... that if you have usb ignition key or the not in the making anymore usb interface and you have authorized reason so you dont need to be online to use the program ( that in its self is crazy ) that you have to deauthorize from the stick or interface or your computer to use the program you have paid for wth is going on with these companys lately ( what have they been drinking !!!) you can not use the subscription Reason+ Rackextensions because you have to be online . I would suggest to BOYCOT everything that needs internet to be used . I am going to get a Mixing Console and MPC Style based Samplers and Synths and some Real Instruments and my Trusty ATARI ST with Cubase. And be done with these Companys ( its just Software we are Talking about ) !

If you decide to NOT get on Reason+ you can authorise your computer for off-line use with all the REs and refills you purchased and throw away the Ignition key, although (and I'm not 100% sure of this) you won't be able to access REs that are on trial or in rent-to-own.

If you decide to get Reason+ you obviously need to be on-line, like with ANY OTHER subscription service.

[melime]

I mean think about how much these VST Instruments cost and you have to Stack some of them like crazy . they cost between 180 and 500 Euros . How many of these do we have ??? I have as much of them that I could buy a complete Studio used and dont have to Stack em . How many Channels would you need ? and the best thing about it is they last a life time and there is no freaking 0 db clipping or gain staging ( depends what your going for ) YEAH!!!

[melime]

hey
you know whats really bad ... that if you have usb ignition key or the not in the making anymore usb interface and you have authorized reason so you dont need to be online to use the program ( that in its self is crazy ) that you have to deauthorize from the stick or interface or your computer to use the program you have paid for wth is going on with these companys lately ( what have they been drinking !!!) you can not use the subscription Reason+ Rackextensions because you have to be online . I would suggest to BOYCOT everything that needs internet to be used . I am going to get a Mixing Console and MPC Style based Samplers and Synths and some Real Instruments and my Trusty ATARI ST with Cubase. And be done with these Companys ( its just Software we are Talking about ) !

If you decide to NOT get on Reason+ you can authorise your computer for off-line use with all the REs and refills you purchased and throw away the Ignition key, although (and I'm not 100% sure of this) you won't be able to access REs that are on trial or in rent-to-own.

If you decide to get Reason+ you obviously need to be on-line, like with ANY OTHER subscription service.

50 Euros is for the Stick ...ehh duh. and one less usb port on your Laptop.

[middle_color]

I think the announcement of subscription was too brave to make alone without introducing some HUGE update to the DAW.
Subscription price is too high and end user left with nothing after cancellation.

I think more acceptable would be a model a la Bitwig where user i left with latest version of a DAW when subscription ends, or a la Kilohearts where one year (cumulative) gives back some virtual cash. Then for example in 3 years of rent user has enough virtual cash to buy a perpetual license, or spend that virtual points to Rack Extenstions.