The new Reason+ (20€/mo, no more Reason Suite!)

[ehdyn]

Suite users will not have any real upgrade path, instead they will pay extra money for a downgraded license when Reason 12 comes out.

Upgrade from 11 Standard or 11 Suite -> 12 will be the same cost, so no "extra money"

This is the issue, ..until yesterday Propellerheads were happy to sell you Suite and Friktion, Mutator, etc..

It's commonly accepted in this industry that Suite is a higher tier version of Reason and it should not be the same cost for the 12 upgrade for those who purchased Suite.. just because they've suddenly decided to dead-end it. This is not a normal life cycle for such an expensive product!

It's also not really ok that Propellerheads will gladly sell you instruments and effects for premium prices but then turn right around and say they have no value and can't be transferred or counted towards upgrades.

Sorry this is a slap in the face to people who purchased Suite and extra RE's.. and to just swap out the entire site and store that users rely upon in the blink of an eye.

So only new users matter?

[starflakeprj]

Suite users will not have any real upgrade path, instead they will pay extra money for a downgraded license when Reason 12 comes out.

Upgrade from 11 Standard or 11 Suite -> 12 will be the same cost, so no "extra money"

This is the issue, ..until yesterday Propellerheads were happy to sell you Suite and Friktion, Mutator, etc..

It's commonly accepted in this industry that Suite is a higher tier version of Reason and it should not be the same cost for the 12 upgrade for those who purchased Suite.. just because they've suddenly decided to dead-end it. This is not a normal life cycle for such an expensive product!

It's also not really ok that Propellerheads will gladly sell you instruments and effects for premium prices but then turn right around and say they have no value and can't be transferred or counted towards upgrades.

Sorry this is a slap in the face to people who purchased Suite and extra RE's.. and to just swap out the entire site and store that users rely upon in the blink of an eye.

So only new users matter?

Not sure if I understand what you mean. Those upgrading to Reason Suite 11 had a higher cost initially, than those upgrading to Reason 11 (Standard). It would be expected (if Reason Suite 12 would be a thing) to have the same upgrade price from Reason Suite 11 to Reason Suite 12, as from Reason 11 (Standard) to Reason 12 (Standard).

When upgrading to Reason Suite 11 you paid for a couple of extra Rack Extensions not available in the standard version. It's not like you are losing them by upgrading from Reason Suite 11 to Reason 12 (Standard)

[ehdyn]

There is no Reason "Suite" 12

[starflakeprj]

There is no Reason "Suite" 12

Didn't say that, it was meant hypothetically..

There was a typo in the last part, where I wrote 12 instead of 11, so I can understand if it was confusing.

[ehdyn]

Suite was 600, not 400 like Standard.. it's not appropriate for them to dead end this product so suddenly and offer no olive branch for existing users.. especially those who have invested in additional Propellerhead developed and sold RE's.. the "value" of the items that they are selling need to be counted towards future discounts and upgrades.

Otherwise, you're shafting existing customers in favor of new subscribers.. and whose to say they won't charge a premium for the 12 "upgrade".. where people with Suite and extra RE's will not get anything out of it or credit for the RE's they already own that are making up a substantial portion of the "value" proposition for 12.

Sorry but this is non-standard behavior in this industry and this bogus accounting has to be of questionable legality..

[D-Fusion]

Well, there's nothing stopping them from ending the subscription "experiment" in a year if revenue goes down...

Doesn't really change anything for current owners, business as usual. And they didn't do anything yet that cannot be undone in a year (or two).
Intro is gone so new users will subscribe, Suite is gone so there's no competition for subscription. From a business perspective it makes sense.
Suite was an experiment from the start anyway. Had hoped they would continue it so I could get the new RE's cheaper, but there were no guarantees. Would be nice gesture if they'd offer existing users an upgrade to a higher version in a sale.

Also Presonus has a subscription. Don't hear many people complaining about that.

The Difference is that Presonus subscription is rent to own which Reason studios does not have.

Eeh, I'm pretty sure Blaster is not talking about the Splice rent-to-own, rather the PreSonus Sphere, which is definitely not rent-to-own. It's actually very much similar to what Reason Studios is offering.

Aaah.
I did'nt know about Sphere and was thinking of the Splice option which i use

[starflakeprj]

Well, there's nothing stopping them from ending the subscription "experiment" in a year if revenue goes down...

Doesn't really change anything for current owners, business as usual. And they didn't do anything yet that cannot be undone in a year (or two).
Intro is gone so new users will subscribe, Suite is gone so there's no competition for subscription. From a business perspective it makes sense.
Suite was an experiment from the start anyway. Had hoped they would continue it so I could get the new RE's cheaper, but there were no guarantees. Would be nice gesture if they'd offer existing users an upgrade to a higher version in a sale.

Also Presonus has a subscription. Don't hear many people complaining about that.

The Difference is that Presonus subscription is rent to own which Reason studios does not have.

Eeh, I'm pretty sure Blaster is not talking about the Splice rent-to-own, rather the PreSonus Sphere, which is definitely not rent-to-own. It's actually very much similar to what Reason Studios is offering.

Aaah.
I did'nt know about Sphere and was thinking of the Splice option which i use

Ok, you are forgiven

[D-Fusion]

Well, there's nothing stopping them from ending the subscription "experiment" in a year if revenue goes down...

Doesn't really change anything for current owners, business as usual. And they didn't do anything yet that cannot be undone in a year (or two).
Intro is gone so new users will subscribe, Suite is gone so there's no competition for subscription. From a business perspective it makes sense.
Suite was an experiment from the start anyway. Had hoped they would continue it so I could get the new RE's cheaper, but there were no guarantees. Would be nice gesture if they'd offer existing users an upgrade to a higher version in a sale.

Also Presonus has a subscription. Don't hear many people complaining about that.

The Difference is that Presonus subscription is rent to own which Reason studios does not have.

Eeh, I'm pretty sure Blaster is not talking about the Splice rent-to-own, rather the PreSonus Sphere, which is definitely not rent-to-own. It's actually very much similar to what Reason Studios is offering.

Aaah.
I did'nt know about Sphere and was thinking of the Splice option which i use

Ok, you are forgiven

[starflakeprj]

Suite was 600, not 400 like Standard.. it's not appropriate for them to dead end this product so suddenly and offer no olive branch for existing users.. especially those who have invested in additional Propellerhead developed and sold RE's.. the "value" of the items that they are selling need to be counted towards future discounts and upgrades.

Otherwise, you're shafting existing customers in favor of new subscribers.. and whose to say they won't charge a premium for the 12 "upgrade".. where people with Suite and extra RE's will not get anything out of it or credit for the RE's they already own that are making up a substantial portion of the "value" proposition for 12.

Sorry but this is non-standard behavior in this industry and this bogus accounting has to be of questionable legality..

For those 200 extra that Reason Suite 11 did cost, you got like 16 (or something) Rack Extensions, right. As long as you didn't own most of the 16 extra Rack Extensions, the deal was pretty good. For me though, it was a pretty bad deal, since there were only 4 Rack Extensions I didn't already own when upgrading, and the reason for not owning them already was because they were not on my short list.

Anyway, for those 200 extra you received Rack Extensions for around 800+ (I have not calculated, just estimated). Rack Extensions you won't lose just because you are upgrading from Reason Suite 11 to Reason 12 (Standard).

[keel]

Too f*ing expensive. 20€ per month and its not even rent to own. Props have always been greedy as fak, and will be. Just stay away this trash company, they clearly change their mind every year. Its like a bibolar wife, you dont know what to expect, but one thing is sure, it will take your all money, if you dont say no.

[chk071]

I never considered Reason to be very expensive... didn't they actually advertise it as a virtual studio equivalent which doesn't cost ten thousand of €?

[briefcasemanx]

Nm

[ehdyn]

Suite was 600, not 400 like Standard.. it's not appropriate for them to dead end this product so suddenly and offer no olive branch for existing users.. especially those who have invested in additional Propellerhead developed and sold RE's.. the "value" of the items that they are selling need to be counted towards future discounts and upgrades.

Otherwise, you're shafting existing customers in favor of new subscribers.. and whose to say they won't charge a premium for the 12 "upgrade".. where people with Suite and extra RE's will not get anything out of it or credit for the RE's they already own that are making up a substantial portion of the "value" proposition for 12.

Sorry but this is non-standard behavior in this industry and this bogus accounting has to be of questionable legality..

For those 200 extra that Reason Suite 11 did cost, you got like 16 (or something) Rack Extensions, right. As long as you didn't own most of the 16 extra Rack Extensions, the deal was pretty good. For me though, it was a pretty bad deal, since there were only 4 Rack Extensions I didn't already own when upgrading, and the reason for not owning them already was because they were not on my short list.

This is the entire issue.. your upgrade should have been reduced in price compared to somebody who did not purchase the RE's that you did..

Anything else is purposely bone-headed accounting that punishes users who purchase RE's.

Beyond hi-res what will be the value proposition for Suite owners.. why should I pay the same when I will be receiving less "new" Instruments/effects comparatively than someone who is only upgrading from 11 standard.. it makes absolutely no sense.. and gets even worse if I purchase Friktion, Pattern Mutator, etc..

So they will sell you something that you can't re-sell or transfer.. ok that's funny to begin with, but at least give me credit for it towards future upgrades when that instrument or effect is the value proposition in the 12 Standard package.

They have to do this since we cannot sell RE's the way we can with a VST.

[briefcasemanx]

Suite users will not have any real upgrade path, instead they will pay extra money for a downgraded license when Reason 12 comes out.

Where are you reading this??? Stop spreading lies

Upgrade from 11 Standard or 11 Suite -> 12 will be the same cost, so no "extra money"

Those upgraing 11 Suite -> 12 will keep their additional REs (which is all the Suite ever was), so how is it downgraded?

Unless 12 is free, then extra money comes out of my pocket with almost zero tangible benefit since I, like 40% of the userbase, use the vst plugin and don't care about the (in some respects) sub par DAW.

Its downgraded because suite is an upgrade from standard Reason, by buying 12 I'll be paying for almost nothing. Super simple concepts.

Excited for your replies where you pretend to not understand how crappy this switch is for a very large portion of the userbase, which is why people are pissed.

[Winstontaneous]

So only new users matter?

As a Reason user since 2008, that is a pretty accurate summation of PH/Reason Studios playbook. They've always valued new users more as opposed to respecting the folks who put them on the map and kept their lights on over the years.

Generally I don't support developers who do this BUT I have found enough value in Reason (stability, inspiration, interesting tools, modulation possibilities) to upgrade for most major versions. As a Suite owner though, I'm not inclined to give them more $$ in the near future.