The new Reason+ (20€/mo, no more Reason Suite!)

[excuse me please]

The average (new) user has to buy a PC/lap, an interface and monitors speakers, mics, cables etc. Probably a MIDI controller, keyboard. They they probably have purchased some plugs.

No. The average new user has to own a PC or laptop, and either speakers or headphones. They don't have to own anything else.

True, sorry for being so unspecific, basically speaking they only need a laptop and phones. A DAW perhaps. However, as I am working this way, I wonder how many home studio enthusiasts have restricted themselves in the same way since they are into audio production.
After working about 7 years with this basic setup I am planning to buy a new PC, an audio interface and monitor speakers first. Then I will upgrade my DAW and buy some plugs.

I have a set of old hw synths which need a dedicated audio interface. All in all things don't come cheap in audio land.

[Blaster]

To me though this does seem like a move that a company makes when it’s trying to hang on however it can and somehow still stay relevant. It’s kind of sad to see what is happening to (the company formerly known as) Propellerhead and Native Instruments.
It’s such a tough industry and these companies have given us so many great things. I hate to see them squirm and bend out of shape trying to stay afloat and please their business overlords.

It's mostly about giving customer options. Have a look at what Presonus is doing with Studio One. They offer buy-to-own, rent-to-own and subscription. I wouldn't say they are doing bad at all and my perception is that they are gaining more and more market share. I actually considered seriously getting Sphere because of MY perceived value of the subscription.

Focus from Reason Studios is, at the moment, on subscription while subs gives Reason Studios the most benefits and it's new and (not so) shiny. Maybe they'll rethink it and make the shop more visible again. Who knows?

[briefcasemanx]

Unless 12 is free, then extra money comes out of my pocket with almost zero tangible benefit since I, like 40% of the userbase, use the vst plugin and don't care about the (in some respects) sub par DAW.

You don't have to upgrade, if the upgrade doesn't bring any benefits for you. When 12 comes out, you'll have to see if new added devices and high-res GUI (+ maybe some rack specific workflow improvements) make any difference for you. Otherwise you can stay with 11.

Its downgraded because suite is an upgrade from standard Reason, by buying 12 I'll be paying for almost nothing. Super simple concepts.

It's not an upgrade. It's just a bundle of devices, that I also have with 11 Standard. Your Suite version isn't in any way better than my Standard. It's not at all the same as it is with Cubase, Studio One or even FL, where different tiers actually have different core DAW features, that you can't purchase.

Excited for your replies where you pretend to not understand how crappy this switch is for a very large portion of the userbase, which is why people are pissed.

"large portion of the userbase" is pissed off because they can't understand 2 pages of anouncement text and/or purposefuly misinterpret it to get worked up about something that doesn't affect them. The ONLY group that's actually affected is those that have 11 Lite/Intro and won't be able to upgrade to 12 Lite/Intro, because that's been discontinued.

Everyone else is making shit up to feel upset about it.

1. Yeah, I never argued that I was forced to upgrade even if I don't think it's a good deal. No clue why you even wrote this first response. You've said exactly nothing.

2. This purposefully sidesteps my point in favor of arguing semantics. I'm not going to get into a really REALLY dumb internet argument about what "upgrade" means. You've again effectively said nothing here.

3. Thank you for making my prediction come true. I predict that you're upset and you'll continue to waste my time with more poor responses. There's a 99.9% chance of this happening.

[XorXisT]

War. War never changes.

[antic604]

Unless 12 is free, then extra money comes out of my pocket with almost zero tangible benefit since I, like 40% of the userbase, use the vst plugin and don't care about the (in some respects) sub par DAW.

You don't have to upgrade, if the upgrade doesn't bring any benefits for you. When 12 comes out, you'll have to see if new added devices and high-res GUI (+ maybe some rack specific workflow improvements) make any difference for you. Otherwise you can stay with 11.

Its downgraded because suite is an upgrade from standard Reason, by buying 12 I'll be paying for almost nothing. Super simple concepts.

It's not an upgrade. It's just a bundle of devices, that I also have with 11 Standard. Your Suite version isn't in any way better than my Standard. It's not at all the same as it is with Cubase, Studio One or even FL, where different tiers actually have different core DAW features, that you can't purchase.

Excited for your replies where you pretend to not understand how crappy this switch is for a very large portion of the userbase, which is why people are pissed.

"large portion of the userbase" is pissed off because they can't understand 2 pages of anouncement text and/or purposefuly misinterpret it to get worked up about something that doesn't affect them. The ONLY group that's actually affected is those that have 11 Lite/Intro and won't be able to upgrade to 12 Lite/Intro, because that's been discontinued.

Everyone else is making shit up to feel upset about it.

1. Yeah, I never argued that I was forced to upgrade even if I don't think it's a good deal. No clue why you even wrote this first response. You've said exactly nothing.

2. This purposefully sidesteps my point in favor of arguing semantics. I'm not going to get into a really REALLY dumb internet argument about what "upgrade" means. You've again effectively said nothing here.

3. Thank you for making my prediction come true. I predict that you're upset and you'll continue to waste my time with more poor responses. There's a 99.9% chance of this happening.

1. No. I'm addressing exactly what you complain about! Let's say upgrade is EUR129 when v12 comes out. It's either worth it for the benefits you get as Rack Plugin-only user or it isn't. That's the sole basis for your decision. You shouldn't care about any "extra money" going towards Reason DAW, the same way like you souldn't care that e.g. bread you pay for finances baker's kids going to school.

2. Semantics are important if you use the same words to describe very different situations. Cubase or S1 Pro vs. Artist are "tiers". Reason Suite isn't a tier, it's a Reason + a bundle of REs.

[beltrom]

Reason Suite isn't a tier, it's a Reason + a bundle of REs.

Sorry for jumping in here....
Like I said in a previous post I agree with you that Reason have never said explicitly what Suite was, but as far as I know they haven't said it was just Reason + a bundle either.

My icon says Reason suite 11.
When I click it and program starts it says "Reason suite 11"
Today it even says: "Reason suite update available".
If I go to "about Reason suite" it says: "Reason suite 11" in the box.
My factory soundbanks are under propellerhead/Reason suite 11
It's installed under Program files/Reason suite 11
And if I go under music I have folders for:
* Reason Intro
* Reason
* Reason suite

It is also kind of weird that they write "To simplify our lineup we will discontinue Reason Intro and Reason Suite—the software will continue to function, and you will still be able to upgrade to the full version of Reason." If suite isn't also seen as something more than just a bundle deal.

Don't you think all of the above kind of implies that suite could potentially be something else than just regular reason with a bundle attached?

I'm happy with the deal I made on suite, and I'm not upset that they discontinue it. But I do think you oversimplify things somewhat.

Note: I'm NOT disputing that it's the same Reason DAW apart from the naming. But what's implied by how they set it up.

[antic604]

Don't you think all of the above kind of implies that suite could potentially be something else than just regular reason with a bundle attached?

Yes, potentially is the key word here.

My point is Suite owners:
1) were never promised Suite will be continued
2) already got a great deal, with 16 REs for EUR10 a piece (or more, if they had few already)
3) are not losing anything - other than their imagined elite status - with launch of Reason+ and Reason 12 dropping "Suite" version

Companies change strategies all the time and as long as it doesn't actually hurt the customer (unreasonable price hike, removal of paid-for features or licenses, etc.) they can just decide with their wallet whether they want to suppor the new strategy going forward.

I think we're going in circles here

[beltrom]

My point is Suite owners:
1) were never promised Suite will be continued
2) already got a great deal, with 16 REs for EUR10 a piece (or more, if they had few already)
3) are not losing anything - other than their imagined elite status - with launch of Reason+ and Reason 12 dropping "Suite" version

Agree on first two...

Number three, well, I think some might feel they lost something. But I won't speak for others...
In light of 1 and 2 to me it's not a big deal at least.
I'll find another way to express my elite status I guess....

I think we're going in circles here

Agreed, as have a lot of other forums...

[Dasheesh]

so glad i saw this coming years ago. i've loaded my laptop with what i like, cut it off from the internet, and never upgrading again. it's just a synth engine at this point.

[easyrider]

I don’t see the issue....You buy the sub you don’t.....nothing has changed if you already have a perpetual licence....

[chk071]

I don’t see the issue....You buy the sub you don’t.....nothing has changed if you already have a perpetual licence....

Don't be so rational please... this is KVR, man!

[easyrider]

I don’t see the issue....You buy the sub you don’t.....nothing has changed if you already have a perpetual licence....

Don't be so rational please... this is KVR, man!

Here is my rationale....

Subs are a PITA....throwaway subs like Netflix and Prime are not the same as Music Creation Tools....

I bought Reason 11 on release due to the Rack implementation in other DAWs....Didn’t really get around to sinking myself into at the time...but always thought I have the option...I haven’t used it in 12 months....Just been getting into the Reason Rack in Studio One while in lock down....It was nice to have spent the money on reason when I was flush 18 months ago and didn’t really notice the outlay...And now have it as an option still as my outlay was done at point of purchase.

18 x 20 = 360 current sub price...

So 18 months ago when heard about Reason Rack I bought Reason...Didn’t really use it...Cost to me was £309 at the time IIRC.

Now 18 months on I can still use it as a tool in my DAW....not paying any more month to month...

Imagine if the sub model was available 18 months ago....I would be £360 down at this moment in time with a further £20 to outlay in Feb another £20 to outlay in March etc....

fast forward another 18 months

36x20= £720

That means if hypothetically speaking if I took the sub out 18 months ago and used it from now on until 2022 I would of shelled out £720 and once I stop paying I lose everything....

Even the upgrade from 11 to 12 will be around £129 still cheaper than the sub model....

So if you have a perpetual licence your quids in long term...£20 per month would soon outstay its welcome once the honeymoon period runs its course....even if you do get new shiny....

I’ll upgrade to 12 like normal....

[chk071]

I dislike subs as well, but, I have no doubt that they're a successful business practice. After all, Amazon Prime or Netflix sell like hot cakes (Amazon Prime much more so recently, I think). Obviously, people are OK with such subs (after all, for power users, they give you a lot of content for a small monthly fee). So, no hard feelings towards the companies which do subs. If the people buy, it's all fair and square. Noone has to buy. That's why I don't really understand such discussions. The usual anti corporate anti economics stuff IMO.

Again, though, this is totally irrelevant here, as Reason Studios still sell perpetual licenses.

[easyrider]

I dislike subs as well, but, I have no doubt that they're a successful business practice. After all, Amazon Prime or Netflix sell like hot cakes (Amazon Prime much more so recently, I think). Obviously, people are OK with such subs (after all, for power users, they give you a lot of content for a small monthly fee). So, no hard feelings towards the companies which do subs. If the people buy, it's all fair and square. Noone has to buy. That's why I don't really understand such discussions. The usual anti corporate anti economics stuff IMO.

Again, though, this is totally irrelevant here, as Reason Studios still sell perpetual licenses.

Netflix and prime are throwaway subscriptions....they are low,priced revolving content....how many time do you watch a TV show or film?

Daws are totally different...you stop paying they don’t work...you get used to the content of a Reason Sub....6 months later you cancel....all your projects are dust...

Save up...buy it and own it....that’s my advice...

[headquest]

I am very happy with my purchase of an upgrade from Reason 10 standard to Suite 11, which I am using as a plugin in Ableton Suite. I don’t really need any more Reason stuff at the present time (although Friction is tempting). I’ll probably continue enjoying what I have for now, as is. I’m sure compatibility will continue on my mac for some time to come!

That said, the one annoyance for me here is that the 50% discount only exists until end of April, meaning that Reason Studios expect/demand a leap of faith. I understand that I would get access to Friktion and a midi effect that doesn’t interest me, plus an upcoming synth and the Reason 12 upgrade later in the year. All of which I would then lose if I didn’t continue paying the 199 a year. So I think they are somewhat taking the p+ss with this, much as I like their software.