On the demise of Emagic

[SquishyCat]

I didn't mean to imply that Microsoft would take Cakewalk over - I agree they seem more interested on a mutually beneficial relationship thingy - but just to give an imaginary PC parallel of what has happened with Logic. And surely Logic owners would be happier if the program was in the hands of a dedicated music software company rather than a twig on a multimedia strategy tree? I would imagine they would rather have got full PDC than Garageband's instruments?

Actually, Microsoft does quite a bit of taking over. Remember Visio? Remember Content Management Server? Remember ....? I'm not saying it's good or bad, but Microsoft is no better at working alongside other companies than anyone else. In fact, sometimes I think MS has a worse time of it. Then again MS is so segregated inside, it really depends on the particular group. If MS wanted the music market, my guess is MS would buy its way in. It is strictly a numbers and strategy game in Redmond. No more, no less.

From someone with experience from the inside out.

Disclaimer: These opinions are my own and are intended to reflect no one else's.

[machinesworking]

As a Logic and mac user, I can say that I understand the concern here. I don't necessarily agree that Apple are making concessions to Logic that hinder it completely for professionals, that's silly. Though I think to a certain degree for people like me who actually like the GUI, and workflow of Logic! (sick isn't it?), things will change to become easily understood by all levels of experience with the program, and I'll be upset at times. The real advantage was mentioned earlier, Apple are making most of their money off of hardware, and the long run sales to any mac customer, so Logic is packed with feature that would be add ons in other programs.

One thing though, I don't understand how anybody can say that L7 is somehow not impressive? Apple loops might be lame if you only used other people's loops, but you can easily make your own audio into Apple loops, so now Logic does time stretching on the fly, like Live. There are a ton of other new features......

PDC on busses, well it might just be that Logic wasn't designed with this in mind? That it just might actually be a struggle to get this implemented in Logic? I can see no Apple based reason not to "include" this feature. Garageband Instruments would take how much time to code into the program? probably a fews days if that, especially considering they probably had it in mind from the start?

Microsoft? pro competition?
Jeez? remember Netscape?
Do I even have to go into that?

I'll bet in the long run both SX and Logic end up leaping ahead of Sonar and Digital Performer, and some of it will be due to their ties to larger companies. No doubt certain features that are deemed "unnecessary" will first appear in Sonar or DP, but more than likely the reverse will be true 90% of the time.

[jones-y]

I agree machines, especially about the PDC issue. IMO it will take a substantial bit of work, and all indicators are that full PDC is coming to Logic.

As for the GB instruments, they are extracted from Logic code, so to implement them back into L7 was probably childs play (keep in mind I'm not a programmer)

[Rik]

what next, Microsoft Sonar 5? Doesn't sound very appealing does it?

It seems to me that Cakewalk has a healthy business and they wouldn't want/need money from MS... Roland recently put some money in the company but they are still independant.
On the other hand, they have more specific products and a much smaller product line.
Emagic and Steinberg have been more pretentious but then at some point they couldn't handle the business anymore... and Pinnacle and Apple saved them...

[meister eder]

Some might say it's ironic considering what the Emagic head honchos did to C-Lab

Eeer, what exactly was it the Emagic head honchos did to C-Lab?

My memory of history might be situated in a parallel universe where it was more like what C-Lab head honchos did to the then to become Emagic honchos.... but well...

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[dreibel]

Actually, Microsoft does quite a bit of taking over. Remember Visio? Remember Content Management Server? Remember ....? I'm not saying it's good or bad, but Microsoft is no better at working alongside other companies than anyone else. In fact, sometimes I think MS has a worse time of it. Then again MS is so segregated inside, it really depends on the particular group. If MS wanted the music market, my guess is MS would buy its way in. It is strictly a numbers and strategy game in Redmond. No more, no less.

May I also mention when Micro$oft bought out Bungie for the sole purpose of getting ahold of Halo for the XBox? Halo was originally supposed to come out for the Mac first.

And wasn't there also a company in the nineties who successfully sued M$ for copying their compression routine in MS-DOS 6, only to have M$ buy them out in a hostile takeover, fire the guy responsible for suing them, and then ashcanned the company?

Bill Gates may wear tacky sweaters, but he is no dummy when it comes to being an adept marketer and in intimidation of of anyone he sees as a threat.

[Notron User]

My memory is hazy, but didn't Microsoft buy Blue Ribbon Software of Bars and Pipes fame?

Never heard of them again tho...

[neverwhere2012]

i think the thing a lot of people miss in the bigger picture is that apple is putting all their effort into establishing themselves as THE company to turn to for multimedia production. they advertise their machines as such. i mean, look at the apple store's software section, Final Cut Pro, Logic 7, Soundtrack, etc. etc.... as a company, they know who they cater to and what their users want. not many people buy a mac just because they want a computer to do their word processing and check their email, macs are something bought with purpose. and i know, everyone knows you can do just as well on a PC, but in all honesty, mac OSX was built with audio and midi in mind. it does it automatically, it streamlines it. let's face it, audio and midi on windows or os9 is a mess of drivers with a million places for conflict to arise. on OSX, you have your coreaudio drivers and your coremidi drivers. the system says "this is what you have, let's get to work". sure, there's flaws in the system just like logic 7 is full of bugs, but those bugs will get smoothed out and something very very wonderful will rise up out of it. the flaws with coreaudio are pretty well taken care of as it is.

however, not trying to assert that OSX or mac is better than anything else, just stating that it IS designed with these things in mind. in fact, i hear in version 10.4 they're going to be possibly implementing "corevideo" stuff, perhaps with "videounits" as a graphical counterpart to audiounits. can't remember how much validity exists in that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.


anyway, i really think the "problem" with logic 7 and it's lack of PDC is mainly due to market pressure. first, as far as i know, full PDC would take a dramatic rewriting of Logic's audio engine that they absolutely did not have the time to perform between Pro 6 and 7. you have to think, while Platinum 6 had been out for a while, you just don't buy and take over a large company overnight -- i.e. there was probably a lot of developmental stasis during the changing of the guard. second, Pro 6 wasn't technically anything new, just statement of Apple's sales strategy from here on out, a little organization of the product line (i.e. final cut pro/final cut express, sountrack/garageband, etc.). i'm sure they saw SX3, sonar 4, live 4, DP 4.5 etc. etc. etc. plus NAMM and AES coming up and knew they needed to present an update to really establish that, yes emagic had been purchased by apple, and yes, logic is now an apple product. it'd be stupid to think they're going to just leave logic 7 as is and call it good. i have a lot of hope for the program in apple's hands.

also, i just want to point out one last thing -- not to anyone at all, just something that generally bugs me about all the complaints about logic, especially about bugs in L7. mainly, i can't hope to count in one lifetime all the instances i've read of "cubase whatever just released yesterday, i installed it and my machine imploded on itself, opened a gateway to hell and devoured my mom. f**k!" ... furthermore, how many other big name developers can you insert in that phrase immediately following a major update? very few people get it right the first time.

[Amberience]

hehe, you don't get ANY of this with Jorgen Aase!!

[AD80]

hehe, you don't get ANY of this with Jorgen Aase!!

Cross our fingers. Who knows what will happen when (if) he gets bought out . I just hope he doesnt pull a Muzys.

[AD80]

there is no more emagic site. just one link that takes you staright to the apple site. emagic as we knew it is finished completely.

I C.

[Markleford]

What electronic musicians fair to grasp, sometimes, is that the music software market is so damn small and penny-ante that Microsoft wouldn't even think about touching a MIDI/audio host. It's a bit of egocentrism to think that our little hobby is worthy of any attention from that size of a player.

Now Apple, sure, they have a vested interested in the image/vibe/lifestyle of a Mac as "THE creative tool". And the buyout of Sonic Foundry properties by Sony Pictures Digital makes sense in that it dovetails with their video editing products: believe me, far more people in the world use a non-linear video editing system than a VST-host!

Any moron can piece together snippets of home movie. It takes a bit more sophisticated moron to write music.

One thing to remember is that a Microsoft is out to make money. Gobs of it. Music software companies, on the other hand, have people passionate about *music software*. They're pleased as punch to make a profit at the end of the fiscal year, but would be happy if they all remained employed, mentally and creatively stimulated, and have enough money for a roof, food, and maybe a few toys.

Nobody ever got into music software to make gobs of cash. They do it because it moves them to create. There are any number of programming jobs out there that would pay far better for less hours at the keyboard.

... all of which is only tangentally related to Emagic and Logic. I just wanted to give a data-point on the hypothetical notion of Microsoft gobbling up SONAR.

- m

[Amberience]

In the same way that you shouldn't whitewash all companies as corporate little bitches each and everyone one of them, you also shouldn't whitewash all music software developers as passionate.

I'm pretty sure that some of the Steinberg people are in it for the money, and I would wager that the bigger companies "sold out" their passion a long time ago.

[neverwhere2012]

and I would wager that the bigger companies "sold out" their passion a long time ago.

christ, can anyone say digidesign? poor poor m-audio.