Which developers are a safe bet for longevity.

[AnX]

I'm gonna go with Microsoft

If they develop their stuff in a direction you don't like there is nothing you can do about it.

so far, in 21 years I've been using them, they have been very accommodating

[PeterP_swe]

I'd argue that I don't know a single Open Source software which can beat the best proprietary software out there, in almost any area, especially professional applications. In terms of longevity, there is proprietary software which is supported and developed for a long time now. So, I really can't confirm what you are saying.

Well, there are at least a few that are strong contenders, like VLC, Firefox, Blender, VCV Rack.

[imrae]

I'd argue that I don't know a single Open Source software which can beat the best proprietary software out there, in almost any area, especially professional applications. In terms of longevity, there is proprietary software which is supported and developed for a long time now. So, I really can't confirm what you are saying.

Well, there are at least a few that are strong contenders, like VLC, Firefox, Blender, VCV Rack.

Python, Apache, OpenSSL, LaTeX, Emacs, SQLite...

[ThomasHelzle]

I'd argue that I don't know a single Open Source software which can beat the best proprietary software out there, in almost any area, especially professional applications. In terms of longevity, there is proprietary software which is supported and developed for a long time now. So, I really can't confirm what you are saying.

Blender is a good example, it's around for ages, originated as an inhouse animation tool of a dutch company, went open source (otherwise it wouldn't exist anymore) and especially in recent versions it rivals many _very_ expensive 3D applications, getting stronger all the time.
I moved all my 3D modelling to Blender last year, although I have other high-end software available.
This also illustrates the other point made: if there is interest, an open source application and community can be extremely stable in the long term.

I replaced MS Office about 20 years ago with first Open- now Libre Office - couldn't be happier when reading about the MS cloud crap now. This was originally commercial software - Star Office - that wouldn't exist anymore otherwise.

Linux is another great example already mentioned. I was a rather happy Windows user since version 3.0, but Windows 10 and where they are going with it gives me the creeps, so if at one point I can manage to get more comfortable with the audio side of things in Linux land (my current interface doesn't work on Linux), I may switch when Windows 8.1 x64 reaches end of life 2023.

And: Programming languages that drive most of the internet, Wordpress, Mozilla, FileZilla, Krita, even MS Code...
And I see a new trend with Dexed, Surge and some others where OpenSource really starts to shine in audioland - and in the case of Surge prevents a plugin from dying when the original dev moved on.
Not all Open Source software is good, but the good Open Source software should be there for a long time.

And just to show the other side of the coin: The list of commercial software I bought from big and not so big companies that was killed off is really really long.
Autodesk Softimage was the worst: after 10 years of knowledge and thousands of euros spent, AD decided on a whim to kill it. Before it belonged to Microsoft, then Avid. Not exactly small fry.
Apple Shake: poof.
The Adobe Creative Suite wasn't killed, but I do not do this kind of subscription so it is an example for a big corporation move that may throw you off your main workhorse software just the same.
Alchemy on Windows, poof.
IBM OS2 anybody?

So after 25 years of very heavy software use I'd say: Nothing is permanent, so forget that right away.
If you can do it with Open Source that has a large community, that should be a rather safe bet, of course this depends on the area you are working in.
And things can go wrong in more ways than just a small dev dropping dead from Covid...

Cheers,

Tom

[chk071]

It might have been a bit misleading, but, I probably rather was thinking of quality than of longevity. Yes, there are some very old Open Source project. Open Source isn't a warranty for longevity per se though, and that was my point.

I'd agree that stuff like Wordpress or MS Code are quality softwares. But then, there's Microsoft behind MS Code, and Wordpress is a very popular toolkit for websites (I think the majority of web pages are made with Wordpress now), and rather serve as exceptions to the rule in my eyes. As you named it, Libre Office isn't really comparable with the MS Office suite. It might serve your purposes, but, I've done enough with both to be able to tell that it's no comparison really. And, if it comes to graphics or picture editing tools, it's absolutely no comparison anymore. Compare GIMP to Photoshop. Or Inkscape to Illustrator. It's like comparing a Dacia to a Ferrari. They're in no way comparable in terms of GUI, ease of use, and also quality of the picture compression algorithms, or the automation tools. It's a different league really.

Anyway, I probably took this off topic, as we were talking about longevity. Again, I don't really think that Open Source guarantees it.

[ThomasHelzle]

Sure, there is NO guarantee for absolute longevity anywhere, that's my main point.
It's just not how the universe operates...

The rest depends on what you need and the field you are working in.

Cheers,

Tom

[imrae]

It might have been a bit misleading, but, I probably rather was thinking of quality than of longevity.

That's ok, PeterP and I just gave ten examples of projects that are strong on quality. You acknowledged another two; I think twelve "exceptions to the rule" is a bit of a push. Maybe it's not a very useful rule.

[chk071]

I don't think that the examples you guys gave are better than good payware. VLC isn't the best video player either. There are much better payware players. Firefox is a good browser though. Event though I still think Chrome, Edge or Vivaldi are faster, prettier and better to use. But, the difference is much smaller as with Libre Office, VLC or GIMP.

[uOpt]

I don't think that the examples you guys gave are better than good payware. VLC isn't the best video player either. There are much better payware players. Firefox is a good browser though. Event though I still think Chrome, Edge or Vivaldi are faster, prettier and better to use. But, the difference is much smaller as with Libre Office, VLC or GIMP.

Chrome is mostly open source, too. And it is based on a toolkit published by Apple as open source.

[ThomasHelzle]

I don't think that the examples you guys gave are better than good payware. VLC isn't the best video player either. There are much better payware players. Firefox is a good browser though. Event though I still think Chrome, Edge or Vivaldi are faster, prettier and better to use. But, the difference is much smaller as with Libre Office, VLC or GIMP.

"Better", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder and depends on your priorities as well as features or look.

For me, being OpenSource and Free is part of the quality equation.
Not being spied on is high on my list of "features".
Not being milked for every tiny change I enjoy a lot.
Not having to enter a subscription and lose my ability to access my work if I don't pay is VERY high on my quality list.
And since this is about longevity: Not having to deal with copy protection is a major plus there.

But I don't think this was about Open Source being "better" in all regards, but about it helping with longevity and in many cases being just as good.
Yes Gimp is far from ideal, but Krita is very good.
And VLC isn't the most pretty but plays just about everything, which is a feature in itself - and again regarding longevity, allows to play some very old videos that commercial players no longer bother with.

All I'm really saying is that longevity is not a boolen On/Off, Yes/No thing.
Things are changing, big companies or their software can go pooof just as well as a small devs tools, commercial offers just as well as Open Source if things go wrong.

After all my time with computers, I find myself in a place where I appreciate what Open Source has to offer more and more, am no longer as interested in the pretty and shiny and returned from doing my website in Microsoft Frontpage (no longer exists), Adobe GoLive (no longer exists), Flash (no longer is an option), Dreamweaver (no longer available outside a subscription) to creating my site in an open source text editor - Works probably forever.
Low-Tech is not always the worst idea and has a quality of it's own.
And you learn a LOT that way.

Cheers,

Tom

[Guenon]

Anyway, I probably took this off topic, as we were talking about longevity. Again, I don't really think that Open Source guarantees it.

It never guarantees it, but it always makes it possible.

That's the big difference.

Open source software can be picked up by developers when ever there is interest in continued development. Longevity is often both the result and the objective when there is interest in a particular piece of software. With proprietary closed code, picking up a codebase and studying it, supporting it, etc, isn't always possible even when there is interest. One could say, it's not unheard of that it's often near impossible instead.

[vurt]

they say that a baby of today will see people born, who will be immortal.
so one of them maybe. if they can be arsed coding, i guess if you're immortal, you would eventually once you've done everything else possible if not before.
but i doubt any of us will be around then.

[uOpt]

they say that a baby of today will see people born, who will be immortal.
so one of them maybe. if they can be arsed coding, i guess if you're immortal, you would eventually once you've done everything else possible if not before.
but i doubt any of us will be around then.

Can you imagine living 450 years and having to change your VSTs every 5 years? Open Source FTW!

[Halonmusic]

Full Bucket
Synapse Audio
Tone2
U-He

Just a few on top of my head.

[ThomasHelzle]

they say that a baby of today will see people born, who will be immortal.
so one of them maybe. if they can be arsed coding, i guess if you're immortal, you would eventually once you've done everything else possible if not before.
but i doubt any of us will be around then.

Even if there ever should be something like "immortality", those people will drop just as dead when hit with a brick, by a virus, by cancer, by suicidal boredom...
I don't think this will change much actually when it comes to software longevity, even now people have second careers since we live longer, and that second career may well be something different from coding, since that is very one-sided as far as human capabilities go...

But hey, tealeavereading is a time honoured profession so whatever floats everybody's boat

I stay with my grandmother who was known to say: "Nothing is more permanent than change".
Everything else is just so much hot air

Cheers,

Tom