Monitor speakers, versatility and bass response

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I used to use Tannoy Reveal actives between around 2001-2004, but did a lot of mixing on headphones. I was never hugely satisfied with the Reveals due to the bass tapering off from around 70 Hz... I believe the cones were 6.5 inches. After a long break I'm back in the market for monitors and I see that things have changed a fair bit; cheap speakers are considerably better than they used to be, and smaller speakers are popular. A lot of products are designed for the sort of imperfect environments that the majority of people are making music in. I like the look of the iLoud MTMs, and if they were cheaper I'd certainly opt for them. The flat frequency response down to around 40Hz looks very impressive, and since I tend to mix quite quietly I'm not really worried about the fact that they may distort when pushed. However, the price puts them in the same category as some very nice traditional monitors, and begs the question as to whether the iLouds justify their costs based on their unique attributes.
I like the look of the entire Presonus Eris range, and could see myself working on the 4.5 or 5 inch versions 60% of the time, and adding a sub for the times when I need to hear the low frequencies. I've not owned a subwoofer before and I'm not sure how the switching/bypassing works. I know that some brands feature a pedal for easy bypassing. I'm wondering whether the sub needs to be switched on in order for the signal to reach the monitors, in which case the energy wastage over time would be significant?
And I've yet to research the issue of placement when it comes to a subwoofer... it seems like it ought to be problematic and create it's own complications which one could avoid by using larger nearfield monitors instead. However, offloading the low frequency work to a subwoofer ought to tighten up the mids.
If the 8inch monitor category were the best solution it looks as though the Adam Audio TV8s are probably the best in the lower price tiers... the Presonus Eris 8XT looks good too. Perhaps either of those would be a decent one-stop solution... the downside being how massive they are.

There's also the room treatment... all that mess. I'll probably be moving over the next year or so, so there's uncertainty around that, which is another plus for the MTMs. I'm confident, however, that I won't be in a particularly small space.

There's also the issue of durability, and the fact that more complex products such as the MTMs are more likely to fail over time... I do see a few such anecdotes in the comments sections on youtube reviews.

For headphone mixing I'm currently using the Sennheiser HD600s I bought back in 2003. I used to prefer my AKG 240s despite them being a quarter of the cost (back then), but they've disintegrated. Anyhow, the Sennheisers are very good, and I'm in the camp that thinks it's actually possible to get a lot of mixing done well on headphones, but there are limits.
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I have just bought the eris 4.5 and I have a sub8 on preorder. I have to say, the sound from the eris monitors is blowing me away. for such a tiny monitor the sound produced is truly exceptional at this price range. I wanted to scale down from working with 6.5 inch woofer monitors and use something that dominates the room less. less boomy and could control the low end if and when I need to hear it. I was gonna go with the 8 inch monitor options as well but I decided for the price this was the most cost effective and offered me the most amount of flexibility and control, I could get another pair of headphones or another reference pair of headphones or speakers with any money left over. I also think with 8 inch woofers on a two way system it's taxing that system to put out both mids and lows and something will be compromised. it's impressive to have 8 inch adams or jbl's but it's ultimately not cost effective. I will be putting the sub8 down on the floor in a more corner location but the great thing is that I can move it around and find a place it works best. :)

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Especially the bass response is a problem with "tiny" monitors and also headphones. I worked a long time with Focal monitors, which "started" at 40Hz. I also used the AKG 240 DF headphones, but just for the volume of the single tracks to "fix" the mix. And with that setup I got good mixes, but almost on every track the bass area made problems. I also tried using an additional subwoover, but it also didn't help. So, I sold all that really expensive crap and tested a used and 25 years old Hifi system from Technics and this thing is like magic, because it brings on the flat setting all frequencies and I only have to change the sitting position to check the bass area and now my mixes and mastering are much better! :D

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Between these two - what would you choose :

Genelec 8040 BPM or HEDD Type 07

for electronic music ?

Would appreciate any feedback!

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filterfreak wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 am Between these two - what would you choose :

Genelec 8040 BPM or HEDD Type 07

for electronic music ?

Would appreciate any feedback!

The Genelec's are good monitors, but lack bass for electronic music.
I have been listening to both the HEDD 7's and Eve Audio SC208's at a friend's studio, and we both agreed that the Eve's were much better, with sharper high-end and more precise low-end.
So he kept the Eve's and sent back the HEDD's.

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bedjka wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:18 am The Genelec's are good monitors, but lack bass for electronic music.
I have been listening to both the HEDD 7's and Eve Audio SC208's at a friend's studio, and we both agreed that the Eve's were much better, with sharper high-end and more precise low-end.
So he kept the Eve's and sent back the HEDD's.
Thanks for your input! Between the HEDD 7's and Eves, i also see most people prefer the EVEs.
Will have that in mind!

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Don't know if you have heard the 8 or 4 inch monitors. Both have their own issues. The 4/5 inch are too small, and don't provide a good stereo image and bass response. While the 8 is too big, it's not a kind of monitor you want on your desk because it's overwhelming while setup as a near field monitor. 6-7 inch monitor provides a balance between a near field monitor, good stereo field, and bass response. Nowadays, almost all budget monitors come with bass port, so their bass response is quite low, 6-7 inch goes under 50 hz, which is enough for mixing dance music. Also, while the spec says it's down to 50hz it doesn't mean it cuts on 50hz, it produces frequencies below 50hz but with a lower volume. You need to take a look at response curves and more specific specs, MTMs don't have a flat response down to 40hz, maybe 50hz with a steep drop after that. Other manufacturers usually specify -3db, not -6db like iLoud.

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If the iLoud MTM's are for expensive for you (they are indeed pricey!), perhaps the original iLouds can suffice. I know they are now as low, but until the MTM's came along, they were the best solution for a use case such as yours.
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At the risk of sort-of repeating what roman.i said:

I have the original iLouds and in a small space I'd hold them up against anything. As a matter of fact, I know people working in small spaces a few feet from 8" drivers etc. - they're not really not made for that.

IF you're relatively close to the monitors and you're at a fairly low volume, you don't need to worry as much about room treatments IMHO - not pushing enough air. The immediate area around the monitors still matter of course. I have one room I work in that has a wall with an open laundry room behind it and use the JBL 104-BTs which are ok but have a rear port; the iLouds have a front port and are more forgiving. But you're not bouncing sound off of walls much because little drivers have low sound pressure levels (I do have wall-mounted bass traps in that room because I can't move too far from the wall, but at lower volumes they don't make a lot of difference).

The only downside to the little iLouds of course is the bass. I make do without a subwoofer (sometimes I work on a coffee table :) ) - the iLouds have a very decent focused bass right down to low G at 49Hz, then absolutely nothing lol. Not a rolloff - it's a cliff. My previous Yamaha HS5's sounded great but were crap down there. I make do - no one's hearing that low E outside of the clubs lol.

If you need them to, the iLouds can get quite loud and do not need a lot to drive them (not the case with the JBLs). They also have a few nice EQ controls to help with some room dynamics.

tl;dr - the original iLouds are a great choice in a small, untreated room used as true nearfields.

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The iLoud's fall off a cliff because they use DSP to get their sound, rather than physical engineering. That's not a criticism, DSP allows for amazing sound from impossibly small enclosures, it's just an explanation for the unnatural behaviour.
wojf62902 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:10 amI have just bought the eris 4.5 and I have a sub8 on preorder. I have to say, the sound from the eris monitors is blowing me away.
Well, it might interest you to know that I have a pair of Eris 4.5s and a pair of 3.5s and I think the 3.5s sound even better. I used them side-by-side for a week or two and then boxed up the 4.5s and haven't touched them since. The 3.5s offered a little more detail than the 4.5s and the bass response was surprisingly similar, IIRC (it was three years or so ago). I mixed and mastered our last album with them and it's easily the best sounding album we've produced.
Last edited by BONES on Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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If I could start over, I'd get the KRK Rockit 5s or 6s, maybe NS10s if I wanted to shell out for a Bryston amp.

No need for subwoofer/bass extension in the types of rooms most of us mix in.

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Yeah, I don't think you need to be able to hear what's going on down to 40Hz to mix it. It's not going to be radically different to what's going on at 60Hz and 80 Hz, which you can easily confirm with a spectrograph of your audio.

Ultimately, though, it comes down to getting to know whatever monitors you decide to use. You do that by playing your mixes on a variety of set-ups - in the car, through your phone's ear-buds, Bluetooth speakers, etc. - so that you learn how their sound transfers to everyday listening environments. I have half-a-dozen different speakers I test my mixes and masters through before I'm happy with them and it's rare now that I have to go back and fix things, because I've been using my current set-up for long enough that I know how it translates. I am really happy with my Eris 3.5s and I probably wouldn't go back to my 8" Wharfedales now, even if I had the space for them.
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Kali do a lovely and cheap monitor, can’t remember the model number though but you can get pair for about $300, 7” woofers.

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BONES wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:18 am Yeah, I don't think you need to be able to hear what's going on down to 40Hz to mix it. It's not going to be radically different to what's going on at 60Hz and 80 Hz, which you can easily confirm with a spectrograph of your audio.

Ultimately, though, it comes down to getting to know whatever monitors you decide to use. You do that by playing your mixes on a variety of set-ups - in the car, through your phone's ear-buds, Bluetooth speakers, etc. - so that you learn how their sound transfers to everyday listening environments. I have half-a-dozen different speakers I test my mixes and masters through before I'm happy with them and it's rare now that I have to go back and fix things, because I've been using my current set-up for long enough that I know how it translates. I am really happy with my Eris 3.5s and I probably wouldn't go back to my 8" Wharfedales now, even if I had the space for them.
I was so tempted by the Eris monitors...but I had a couple bad experiences with Presonus products, so I've stayed clear. I might just pick them up as another option when times are right!

And I totally agree with playing mixes on different systems—crucial! If you have a sub, by all means check your mix on it (especially if you're doing hip hop, EDM, etc). But I just wouldn't do my main mixes with it engaged. My brother does that, and, well, his mixes never translate! And I can't talk him out of it! Haha.

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simmo75 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:20 amKali do a lovely and cheap monitor, can’t remember the model number though but you can get pair for about $300, 7” woofers.
They are the LP 6 and they cost double that here in Australia.
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