Workstations that have WiFi and apps to increase display size and whatnot - are there any?

[lfm]

Been looking at workstation that might have extra display connector for hdmi or wifi as title row say.

Even the cheapest DSLR cameras I have, around $400 have wifi and apps to get bigger display and other features on remote.

But looking at Korg, Roland, Yamaha and Kurzweil workstation from $2000 and up I have failed to find any. And they all have way too small displays to spend a longer time at.

Like a mystery to me this is not there?
You would have larger display 10" and up and also can place it and tilt any way you like.

Korg Oasys at least hade nicely tilt display and larger - but in successor Korg dropped this.

I don't know if users mainly buy libraries and don't fiddle much with internals of workstation or what the reason might be.

I saw a mod for Kronos to tilt display up significantly so you don't have to tilt entire keyboard for convenience.

Any workstations that have 3rd party stuff to plugin to usb and extend with such features as wifi etc?

Thanks for any input.

[clipnotic]

Short and simple answer, also all new hardware workstations are still dated and not worth the money, except you're a coverband keyboarder and want just playing presets!

[lfm]

Thanks, that is probably the only conclusion you can draw.
Been looking at standalone solutions not using computer lately to see if possible.

Behringer Wing, you can record to SD-cards, but only record to one card and read from the other. Not made to be selfsufficient. Otherwise with plenty effects could have been a winner. And if wanting ADAT input, that module replace SD-cards so that part lacking as well.

Looked at Tascam Dp-series portastudios and mixer/recorders like Model 12,16 and 24.

But all lack what I had in my last portastudio 20 years ago - Fostex VF160
- ADAT input to use preamps of preference
- midi out to sync to a videoplayer(Model 12 though has this at least)

Workstations also having midi I thought might be a solution but too tiny displays to really sit there longer periods. But some at least also have 16 tracks audio you can record. Midi is really convenient.

Maybe the Windows 7 daw computer I have will last - I really hope so. I have a Windows 10 laptop as experiment and now held 88 days without updates, but overall I don't know WTF Microsoft is up to these days. It's a serious downgrade from Windows 7. It would be with a gun to my head I get a Windows 10 daw computer.

Tascam Model 12 for audio with midi sync to hardware sequencers feel closer to solution. Then maybe analog mixer or something.

JoeCo has recorders but seems focused on as many simultanious track recordings and then use computer
https://joeco.co.uk/bbr1b-joeco-multi-t ... -recorder/

Will look closer into that...

[clipnotic]

Thanks, that is probably the only conclusion you can draw.
Been looking at standalone solutions not using computer lately to see if possible.

Behringer Wing, you can record to SD-cards, but only record to one card and read from the other. Not made to be selfsufficient. Otherwise with plenty effects could have been a winner. And if wanting ADAT input, that module replace SD-cards so that part lacking as well.

Looked at Tascam Dp-series portastudios and mixer/recorders like Model 12,16 and 24.

But all lack what I had in my last portastudio 20 years ago - Fostex VF160
- ADAT input to use preamps of preference
- midi out to sync to a videoplayer(Model 12 though has this at least)

Workstations also having midi I thought might be a solution but too tiny displays to really sit there longer periods. But some at least also have 16 tracks audio you can record. Midi is really convenient.

Maybe the Windows 7 daw computer I have will last - I really hope so. I have a Windows 10 laptop as experiment and now held 88 days without updates, but overall I don't know WTF Microsoft is up to these days. It's a serious downgrade from Windows 7. It would be with a gun to my head I get a Windows 10 daw computer.

Tascam Model 12 for audio with midi sync to hardware sequencers feel closer to solution. Then maybe analog mixer or something.

JoeCo has recorders but seems focused on as many simultanious track recordings and then use computer
https://joeco.co.uk/bbr1b-joeco-multi-t ... -recorder/

Will look closer into that...

The "standalone goal" without using a PCs / DAWs today has one big mistake in thinking, because for detailed (!) sequencing, recording and also mastering a track, you'll finally need a good DAW, if you want to work rational! Of course, if you ask this in hardware specialized forums, they tell you, that you still can do this only with a bunch of hardware, but that's nonsense! You can hear that, if you listen to music from most of them.

So, if you want to use hardware, on my opinion the best way is, to work with both, a good DAW and the hardware as sound source!

[lfm]

Nonesense or not - music industry existed before daws.
But as I mentioned, kind of hard to get dawless these days.
It is convenient for sure with daw. Just trying to prepare if my daw computer dies on me - plan B ready.

As retired I am doing this full time, but no professional ambitions. But surely would spend "professional money" on a good solution. Even looked at Audient console and what else to get to be standalone.

Either way look at getting a rack effects unit like Lexicon or Bricasti now with daw. And would also be useful with a console or analog mixer of some sort. Already since 10 years moved to hardware instruments, synths, piano, organ, bass and guitars. If I get an eDrum module with good enough sounds I am already done in that part and daw not needed really.

Work in progress....

[clipnotic]

Nonesense or not - music industry existed before daws.
..

Well, my first DAW was Notator SL for the Atari ST / Mega ST and that's really a long time ago! But at this time, MIDI worked really great!

[lfm]

Been there too, Atari running Steinberg, and Commodore computer then Cakewalk on a Toshiba portable.
Cassette portastudio Fostex and Tascam, sacrificed one track to record sync signal to run sequencers.
Maybe it was the other way around, memory fades.

But longing for Fostex 16 track reel-to-reel and above what I could afford any time soon I dropped the idea.

That was the 80's - now today dreams come true.

[clipnotic]

So, you have much experience and therefore you can forget your "only hardware plan". I understand you, in the 80s/90s every synth and effect cost much money, most musicians didn't had. My first hardware setup cost over 50.000 Deutsche Mark and at this time that was much money, but I also wanted much more, but hadn't the money.

But now we have 2021 and you can do almost everything much better with software. And if you find / want something, which only works with hardware, because of sound or workflow, you can also use it. There are still some cool hardware machines available, Elektron stuff for example ...

[clipnotic]

The best example are workstations! Today every big company (Korg, Roland, Yamaha) are reducing their sequencer festures and if you ask them for important features, they tell you can do this with your DAW. So, you pay $2000-3000 only for a big keyboard, but you still need a DAW to use it really (!) good. And if you do that and use a modern DAW, you'll will see, that there are much cheaper plugins available, which offering much more than your workstation!

[lfm]

Thanks, you are probably right about workstations. Just trying to keep an open mind and see where it ends.
The editors is what they rely on probably, and you need computer anyway.
Strength is that they have sequencer, midi editor and recording.
Thought there might be an opening.

Looked at some demos of Tascam Model 24 and DP24/32 and they lack too many things
- Model24, no bouncing to overcome no automation, just the main mixdown so everything is realtime.
- Model24 has MTC over usb, but then in my case video player need to be computer
- DP32 has virtual tracks and bouncing too, and aux sends are just mono and no MTC at all.
- one guy had both, and audio quality was way better in Model 24, and it cost double so it should

It was all dead ends. At least I know now, and can stop speculating.
So on pc it is Linux left pretty much that I don't know much about.
I installed a Red Hat Linux in the 90's for normal use, but felt really hacker level.
Graphic interface I tried install was really buggy and most menues did not work.

[lfm]

Think I found my solution Akai MPC X
https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-x

It has everything
- 10" monitor at least
- midi and audio recording limited by storage only
- automation
- bouncing
- MTC sync abilites
- Wifi and network stuff
- enough ins/outs of midi and audio
- support 24/96 recording

This can really work as standalone studio if so.

[JCJR]

My eyes have got so bad, buying anything else that needs sharp eyesight seems short-term or risky. Maybe could use it a few years more or maybe a few months more, hard to foretell. I use BIG monitors, 10 inch would be a silly joke.

I don't understand how "most people" can be happy with the ergonomics of "DAW + Hardware", or even just "Everything Except the Keyboard Is Software In The DAW". I mean, I have used "DAW + Hardware" since MIDI was invented in 1984. And I have tried many times to configure it as ergonomic possible.

But for composing/multi-tracking MIDI, no config has ever been as ergonomic as some of the early keyboards including stripped-down MIDI sequencers. Such as ESQ-1 or EPS+. Those things didn't even have PianoRollEdit or EventListEdit, and barely had quantize or transpose, but it was slam-bam fast easy laying out a rough song prototype. All the buttons right there an inch away from the keyboard.

Because sophisticated editing was basically impossible, it encouraged quick-record rough and ready tracks as fast possible until inspiration lapses. After the inspiration phase, I wopuld port the MIDI to a computer for polishing. For audio, mixing and mastering, computer ergonomics is fine with me. Just never got an ergonomic setup between computer and keyboard for composing and quick initial tracking.

The sequencers in modern workstations that I've looked at, seem unergonomic and slow and arcane to me. Just as bass-ackwards and un-ergonomic as trying to record with keyboard + computer, if not more so. But I suppose a stripped-down "hardly any features" fast to use built-in keyboard sequencer would get jeered at nowadays if a manufacturer happened to release one. A modern "built-in" sequencer would have to have lots of DAW features in the keyboard's spec sheet, even if the actual usability is slow and near-useless for practical work.

[lfm]

Interesting read, thanks.

My eyes have got so bad, buying anything else that needs sharp eyesight seems short-term or risky. Maybe could use it a few years more or maybe a few months more, hard to foretell. I use BIG monitors, 10 inch would be a silly joke.

It's hard to beat a daw, in my case 2 x 27" monitors, mixer on one and arrange tracks on one. When doing video that is on one, quarter of size maybe is enough.

But as far as standalone hardware goes, this MPC impresses me.
And assuming, am to check, you can zoom in/out with simple gestures anywhere you like.
It also has wifi that open up to use larger pad possibly, not sure what the apps allow or just some monitor solution that can be used for video as well.

Luckily I hardly do any editing, it's live recording and use as tape recorder pretty much.

MPC is listed under DJ stuff, so might bump into issues regarding what libraries there are. Am to check with Akai if onboard drums are any with eDrum engine support with hihats and all or have to make do with sounds in eDrum module. I use Addictive drums today on daw, but legacy of MPC is really a long history so would be suprised if nothing there apart from EDM stuff.

10 GB of 16 internally is occupied with pre-installed content. But standard 2.5" sata hdd or ssd can extend.

A project can be 128 sequences, and a sequence is like a chunk in Digital Performer, a verse or chorus or something that you put together to a song. This is pretty much how you work in daw with arranger tracks too. So 128 midi tracks + 8 audio tracks in a sequence or have audio overlap many sequences as I understood it, so you don't have to chop audio if you don't want to.

What impresses quite a bit is determination from Akai with the updates and new features. And each update also has a manual update including that - that alone impress me.

In one update they added class compliant usb midi interface to extend with more ports. 2 Midi in and 4 midi out are probably lasting, if doing midi thru on some I do now on separate ports though. But tells a story how Akai work on this.

It got 4 analog inputs and 8 out, and am to check if I can render those 2xstereo in for mixdown for a final bounce or export and then use 8 onboard audio track and I will be fine.

But with external mixer I can run midi to synths live and automate midi stuff which is there too. I am looking for solutions here, not problems.

The sequencers in modern workstations that I've looked at, seem unergonomic and slow and arcane to me. Just as bass-ackwards and un-ergonomic as trying to record with keyboard + computer, if not more so. But I suppose a stripped-down "hardly any features" fast to use built-in keyboard sequencer would get jeered at nowadays if a manufacturer happened to release one. A modern "built-in" sequencer would have to have lots of DAW features in the keyboard's spec sheet, even if the actual usability is slow and near-useless for practical work.

The 7-8", most of the time flat on keyboard and not tilted up, really make that hard to make ergonomic.

I found this and no better
https://www.sequentix.com/shop/cirklon- ... -sequencer

But sequencer seems competent, and pricy. But if doing mostly live recordings could serve rather well. But hardware mixer would be needed as well.

There will be computers involved somehow anyway, for video editing and things. But very short time in comparison to music part which is 95% at least.

MPC is a sampler that can be used in controller mode as well, so will check out what content Akai has to offer. If everything is just EDM or also high quality orchestral stuff etc.

I looked shortly at MPC Live a couple of years ago and it has everything a sampler needs, multimapped on velocity ability and so on. So far so good. 2 GB ram has limitations probably but cpu seems strong enough to stream.

Looking for drum kits I found this incredible finger drummer

[JCJR]

Hi lfm. I looked at some of the MPC vids awhile ago when it was released and I agree with you it looks like work could get done, assuming not too many weird bugs and gotchas pop out in actual use.

Some of the old midi-only built-in stripped-down sequencers of yesteryear, did not require much display or many buttons, because there were hardly any features. I just found it real quick'n'easy to write and lay rough tracks with the beasts, then move the MIDI to a computer for further polishing if necessary. But that is a slightly different nostalgia trip than you are talking about. So I apologize slightly drifting the topic.

As a silly example, here are a couple of R&B ballad songwriter demos I did for a singer friend in the late 1980's. They were done with Ensoniq EPS+ built-in 8 track MIDI sequencer and a few connected synths, synced to a Vestax 4 track cassette via JL Cooper sync box. Tape vocal tracks + live synth outputs mixed thru a Peavey PA Mixer into digital audio PCM501 Beta VideoTape. Using a $70 EV PL9 Omni Dynamic Instrument mic for vocals.

Am not saying these songs are great or anything. Just that those songs took 2 or 3 hours each and did not turn out too shabby for a couple hours thumbfingered work. Landis would arrive with a head arrangement of melody, chords, lyrics, verse/chorus layout. So all we had to do was Landis show me the song, then I played the tracks into the EPS sequencer and select target synth tones, record Landis vocal tracks, then mix and call it a night.

I could do it better with a DAW of course, but no way could I do It with a DAW in 2 or 3 hours per song. Maybe wouldn't finish at all because laying tracks with a DAW is so damn annoying and cumbersome. Maybe get off task, lose the concept before initial tracking finished.

Hell I probably spent 2 or 3 hours per song last year just "remastering" the old tunes, bumping them from old PCM beta tape into the computer, EQ, compression, limiting, etc.

http://www.errnum.com/MP3Files/LandisBa ... ingYou.mp3

http://www.errnum.com/MP3Files/LandisBa ... Change.mp3

[lfm]

Hi lfm. I looked at some of the MPC vids awhile ago when it was released and I agree with you it looks like work could get done, assuming not too many weird bugs and gotchas pop out in actual use.

After watching 50+ vids it's still holding out.
I am having issue making eDrum module interface for it so ordered a new eDrum engine which takes midi input and I can use as a module.

Then I can use any midi sequencer and all the sounds are in my boxes. The Kawai MP7SE has a lot of decent orchestral stuff too.

But maybe Squarp Pyramid will do as well
https://squarp.net/pyramid/

and a summing mixer for it all.
That's one route for midi gear but then need audio recording too.

But MPC X is still my number one having the automation stuff too.
I can render 2 x stereo at a time into it, which is basically what I do with external gearl in computer too.

The Tascam Model 12 and such did not even have bounce where you could do manual fades and stuff doing a bounce. Back in the 80's and cassette portastudio you had to plan this thoroughly since every bounce degraded quality - which digital does not do. Doing the digital hdd portas like Fostex VF160 and even the first one VF08 you had virtual tracks and could bounce many times as you pleased.

And if to do 24/96k I can do that with MPC X as well. 1.8GHz quad core ARM is probably going to handle it with effects and all.

One thing with this external standalone gear, not regular pc, is that hdmi for larger monitor is there on computers and graphics cards but this gear cut down on that for some reason. Same on workstations I looked at, not even wifi to do larger display on an iPad or similar. My cheapest DSLR's at $400 have that - so no clue why they leave that opportunity out on so much of this standalone gear.

I am to investigate if you freely everywhere can use gestures to do zooming to any degree as you see fit. I looked at some vids that when doing things, in this case a reverse reverb, on another track he navigated through timeline bars markers where to put it while I would like to make track you align to visible track too in that process. In video he only had one track visible and will see if that was a lmitation in the unit or he was ignorant that he could just pinch zoom to any view.

And can record bass and guitar and use submix which takes 8 channels too.
It's no exaggeration "studio centerpiece" as Akai put it.

So research still in progress....