Weird bounce behaviour in Studio One 5

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KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:01 am

Random tracks placed into arrangement. Notice how every one of them has silence at the start. Some more than others. This is just the norm thing to do and good practice. Usually the mastering engineer will trim it down so there's not a huge silence at the start but any good mastering engineer will leave some silence on their master and request that there is silence on the pre-master.
Track Start Spaces.jpg
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Suspended
4030 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:50 am

benmcc wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:11 am
NOT just midi recording in normal internal use. Midi recording inside Studio One works fine, it always has
So those saying it doesn't are wrong ?
Sure , a lot depends on configuration etc...
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:52 am

For the most part, yeah. It's usually some kind of system problem, or a driver issue somewhere. From my experience using DAWs since the early 2000s, Studio One might not be as massively feature rich as some of the Granddaddy DAWs today, but in terms of stability compared to the others it's certainly running fit and better in a lot of other areas.

I was just pointing out to the people who are saying "Studio One sucks at midi" and that "Studio One is flawed", "their support is just terrible." These people actually really don't have a clue and are flame bashing based off of their own misunderstandings of DAW DSP or even just simple settings preferences.

I'm not saying bugs don't exist because they do. Every DAW has a list of bugs, but from my experience there are more bugs in other DAWs and those DAWs have had the same, very easy to fix bugs, for a LONG time.

Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones, but for me Studio One is very stable. The midi works fine, and as a product for music production it works as intended and does a real good job at it. Every bug I have ever noticed has always been fixed.

KVRian

Topic Starter

1302 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:18 am

As long as you don't use hardware synths, Studio One works great. I'm using a hybrid setup with hardware synths aswell as VST's, and in Studio One I always have to manually set the track delays because Studio One does not have any latency compensation for external hardware.

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:38 am

Yeah, it's a bit of an inconvenience for sure. But it's just one of those things when working with external real-time audio. With external hardware effects, Studio One has Pipeline XT, which will send a ping through the audio signal chain and calculate any latency there might be and then compensate for it within the DAW. Maybe an external midi to audio ping thing for hardware instruments might not be as straight forward to do as the hardware effects thing. The hardware synth latency thing is not a specific problem for Studio One, it's been around for a very long time across multiple DAWs. People have always had to use track delay and gaps at the start of the production to get things to work smoothly. It's a pain, no doubt about it, but it's simple to get around.

KVRian

Topic Starter

1302 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:22 am

Ableton Live, Bitwig and Cubase don't seem to have this problem.

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:38 am

Well, it's just one of things I suppose. It's not like this a real problem that stops people from using hardware synths in Studio One, like the jitter thing does. That jitter thing is a constant mis-timing of audio from midi with external gear, but thankfully Studio One does not have that problem. Cubase does, as far as that bumble guy goes on about with his technical investigations, so does Pro Tools, FL Studio, and a few others.

But yeah don't get me wrong, your AUX bounce bug, it's a hassle and hopefully gets sorted out. Must be some kind of ASIO buffer midi synchronisation thing that is from trying to get instant audio from an outside source from basically zero on the midi timeline. I guess that they'll implement slight latency to ensure external devices are synced up to the DAW properly if timeline play marker is set to record from zero. Probably just an honest oversight; a minor thing in a complex program such as a DAW.

With the addition of the dedicated AUX track that can be permanently assigned to interface connections and midi ports, maybe they will implement a delay value that can be imbedded into the preset for the AUX track instrument for any future use. That way the track delay thing wouldn't be that much of a hassle. It would work kind of similar to the way they do the Pipeline XT device. Set it up, save it, and it's ready for any project.
Last edited by benmcc on Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRian
582 posts since 26 Nov, 2007

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:45 am

wasn't bashing a soul mate... just stating the truth based on dealing with the DAW and the company for many years now and nothing has changed through those years. sorry i am not a fanboy but to be honest i am not a fanboy of anything... not even myself lol but saying i don't have a clue is preposterous and nothing but a veil. i know my system and have been using and building computers since before there were personal computers as people know them today and i did my share of programming and actually went to college for computer science in the early 80's. so i pretty much know they have been using the same base routines. no one just tosses code in the trash and rebuilds (writes new code) from the ground up unless they change programming languages and even then lots of stuff translates over lol

i used to perform (guitar and singing... not really into synths although i can play piano a little) but jumped over the desk in 2000 and started trying my hand at engineering and have used pretty much every DAW available since then. i actually prefer to mix audio in studio one but as for creation via midi and such i prefer other software. so take from what i have said as you will but again... to say i don't have a clue is a joke. good try though. i was only chiming in to say it has been a problem, IS a problem and will continue to be a problem for as long as presonus plays the games they play. now go try to hump someone else's leg i am done here. cheers

Sunset Babies all got rabies but I got my shots


KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:03 pm

Well that's all fine MadDog. I'm not bothered. You have your opinion and I have mine. I have 20 years experience of audio programs and DAWs, an Audio Technology university degree, and I have been involved with the music industry for many years. In my opinion, Presonus does not suck at midi. It's actually quite good. And as for slight issues with sync between hardware and software, this is all quite normal and has been for years with all the DAWs. Like the guy said, you move in a couple of bars and use a little track delay and that's it. Sorted.
Last edited by benmcc on Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KVRist
99 posts since 28 Nov, 2020

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:20 pm

benmcc wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:11 am
That Bumblebee guy going on about jitter... just to be clear, he is talking about sending midi out of your computer, into some form of external midi instrument (drum machine, hardware synth, whatever) and then recording the audio back into the computer. NOT just midi recording in normal internal use. Midi recording inside Studio One works fine, it always has.

Also, Studio One 5.1 release note: - Block size is added to Recording Offset
That basically means, bumbles jitter problem, sorted. As far as I can see. He certainly now says that S1 jitter is no longer an issue. So, that's that.
This is what I was referring to.Recorded Audio from an external hardware synth is not exactly in sync with the midi.I am not talking about latency but about jitter.

What does the 'block size added to recording offset' exactly mean,please?
It is pure Chinese language for me.Sorry if I sound like a noob. :hihi:

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:31 pm

When triggering the midi note from the DAW sequencer, If there is a difference between the sample position and the audio buffer position the difference will be offset when the midi is sent to the instrument to ensure that the timing of the midi information is accurate to what you have programmed and the audio will be received as expected, in time as programmed.

KVRist
99 posts since 28 Nov, 2020

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:40 pm

Perfect,I think I understand now.But this will solve the latency issues,not really the jitter,right?

KVRist
50 posts since 23 Jan, 2006 from SCOTLAND

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:55 pm

Well that is about the jitter thing. Supposedly the 'block size added to recording offset' has sorted that out. I've got no way to confirm it myself because I don't use any hardware instruments. But the AdmiralBumblebee guy who was doing all the technical tests has confirmed now that Studio One does not have a jitter problem any more. It has since been fixed.

The latency issue with sending midi out to gear and there being a slight delay in getting it back in the computer as audio is just 'it is what it is' really. Hopefully there is a way for them to implement a latency delay detection feature for the AUX tracks just like the way the Pipeline XT plugin compensates for audio latency when using external hardware effects. That way latency would be corrected just as it is for regular latency creating plugins. Everything would be delayed by whatever milliseconds with various different delay values for various plugins that create different latency values. It's complicated, basically.

KVRist
99 posts since 28 Nov, 2020

Post Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:20 pm

I have to check this v5.1 so...Yes I had the same idea about something like Pipeline XT for external midi instruments,that would a good idea!It is certainly more complicated than think,I am not a developper.
As I said earlier,I just believe the external instruments have their own jitter issues,whatever the DAW is more or less accurate.The jitter was a big concern for me years ago,but I have finally gave it up.I must accept it unfortunately.

Thanks a lot for your replies!

KVRist
364 posts since 21 Nov, 2000 from Good Ol' Germany

Post Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:53 am

No time to check, but I just downloaded release notes for today’s 5.2 update:

The issues with bouncing external devices is listed as „fixed“. Let’s hope this is true...

:party:

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