Effect editor that allows some automatic control of parameters

[mezmay]

I need to create some audio effect chain, that could process sound in a realtime (near-realtime), consisting of fairly simple effects: pass-filters, vibrato, reverb, etc.

Nowdays there are so many audio effects and audio editors that of course I want take some ready-made effect editor as much as possible.

Generally speaking, I just need apply my algorithm of parameters changing to ready-made effects. Parameters have to be changed automatically during a musician are playing something.

So, I need effect editor that allows:
1. Choose and connect ready-made audio effects
2. Export work as an audio plugin for DAW or process a sound in realtime by itself
3. Add a simple program control to the effects: change bands, thresholds, gains.

What's the best effect editor for this?

I'm familiar with c++ and could write some logic on it or on some script language if necessary, but I do not want to write effects and tools that are already written.

[whyterabbyt]

Nowdays there are so many audio effects and audio editors that of course I want take some ready-made effect editor as much as possible.

Im not 100% sure what you mean by this, but going by your list of points below, I dont think that it exists quite the way you think it does. I'd actually go far as to assume you're not really familiar with audio software, as 'effect editor' isnt a really an existing thing.
Im not sure how much you do know, but suffice it to say that most effects work within an audio-editing environment (aka DAW, or 'host') and they may be built-in, or plugins. Either way, the host may have some control over the effect parameters, but that control isnt necessarily extensible.

There are programs for constructing effects plugins, and you could call them 'editors' but what they really are is programming environments, replacing the 'normal' C++ programming with a dedicated tool for creating plugins. Some are visual programming (eg Synthedit) some are text based (eg Plug'n'Script), some export finalised plugins for use in a DAW, some are plugins themselves (eg Reaktor).

Your other alternative is a modular plugin (eg VCRack) , but in that case, the effects are realised with full sets of existing controls etc as virtual modules with CV/gate style portss for making connections them. With some of them (VCRack and Cherry VM) there are SDK's which would allow you to write your own custom modules which could be hooked up via CV/gate.

Generally speaking, I just need apply my algorithm of parameters changing to ready-made effects. Parameters have to be changed automatically during a musician are playing something.

So, I need effect editor that allows:
1. Choose and connect ready-made audio effects
2. Export work as an audio plugin for DAW or process a sound in realtime by itself
3. Add a simple program control to the effects: change bands, thresholds, gains.

If you were building a plugin, that's not quite how it would work. Most of these tools, plugin creators and low-level modular plugins, do come with examples of basic effects, but the expectation is that the user is going to create those effects that arent provided. That's just the way it is, they don't actually use libraries of prebuilt effects, though they might have libraries of prebuilt effect algorithms.
Some, like Reaktor, have extensive libraries of shared user-made devices you can pull from too, but you'd need to do work to 'strip them back' to the core effect portion.
Secondly, you'd create your controls as part of the plugin or device.
Thirdly, if necessary, you'd export that as a plugin.

BTW, I suspect this post is in the wrong place; it doesnt really relate to hosts or DAWs at all. I'd suggest you request a moderator move it to the Modular Synthesis forum, that's where it fits best I think.

[mezmay]

I'd actually go far as to assume you're not really familiar with audio software, as 'effect editor' isnt a really an existing thing.
...
There are programs for constructing effects plugins, and you could call them 'editors' but what they really are is programming environments, replacing the 'normal' C++ programming with a dedicated tool for creating plugins. Some are visual programming (eg Synthedit) some are text based (eg Plug'n'Script), some export finalised plugins for use in a DAW, some are plugins themselves (eg Reaktor).

 

Yes, by "effect editor" I meant something like SynthEdit or Reaktor or something similar. Do such the tools allow to make what I want?

For example, after the first run of the SynthEdit seems it contains "effects" like I need:
screenshot: https://disk.yandex.ru/i/aY_We4l2Kxo4Xg

Do SynthEdit or Reaktor allow algorithmic control of the effect parameters?

[xbitz]

like https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... ugNScript/ ?

[DJ Warmonger]

So you want a VST host with internal automation that is also a VST plugin and can run inside a DAW?

[mezmay]

So you want a VST host with internal automation that is also a VST plugin and can run inside a DAW?

The ideal solution is a visual editor that allows importing existing audio plugins, connect them to each other, control their parameters by scripts, listen the resulting sound in the visual editor, and finally export all the components as alone audio plugin to use it in any DAW).

[mezmay]

like https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... ugNScript/ ?

Thanks! The description sounds very tempting...

[DJ Warmonger]

So you want a VST host with internal automation that is also a VST plugin and can run inside a DAW?

The ideal solution is a visual editor that allows importing existing audio plugins, connect them to each other, control their parameters by scripts, listen the resulting sound and the visual editor, and finally export all the components as alone audio plugin to use it in any DAW).

Synthmaker once banned this exactly as it could allow people to fake all plugins contained within ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You could just wrap any .dll inside and sell as your own.

[mezmay]

Synthmaker once banned this exactly as it could allow people to fake all plugins contained within ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You could just wrap any .dll inside and sell as your own.

Do you mean SynthEdit? Yes, I understood why this is not possible for 3rd party plugins.
Does SynthEdit or Reaktor support some program control for the allowed effects?

[mezmay]

like https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... ugNScript/ ?

Thanks! The description sounds very tempting...

... but as I undestand, Plug'n Script facilitates the tasks of setup environment, GUI creation, test and build of new plugin, but it is still necessary to write a DSP code yorself as follows:

Code: Select all

void processSample(array<double>& ioSample)
{
    // update delay time continuously
    actualDelay+=delayCoeff*(delay-actualDelay);
    uint integerDelay=uint(actualDelay);
    for(uint channel=0, count=audioInputsCount;channel<count;channel++)
    {
        array<double>@ channelBuffer=buffers[channel];
        double input=ioSample[channel];

        // compute output
        double output=input+feedback*channelBuffer[(currentIndex-1-integerDelay)&mask];

        // update buffer
        channelBuffer[currentIndex]=output;

        // copy to output with mix
        ioSample[channel]+=mix*(output-input);
    }
    currentIndex++;
    currentIndex&=mask;
}

which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Writing own filters and effects is a very non-trivial task, and I have already did it in one project and I absolutely don't want to write the effects which have already been written a thousand times.

Generally speaking, I just need apply my algorithm of parameters changing to ready-made effects.

[whyterabbyt]

I'd actually go far as to assume you're not really familiar with audio software, as 'effect editor' isnt a really an existing thing.
...
There are programs for constructing effects plugins, and you could call them 'editors' but what they really are is programming environments, replacing the 'normal' C++ programming with a dedicated tool for creating plugins. Some are visual programming (eg Synthedit) some are text based (eg Plug'n'Script), some export finalised plugins for use in a DAW, some are plugins themselves (eg Reaktor).

 

Yes, by "effect editor" I meant something like SynthEdit or Reaktor or something similar. Do such the tools allow to make what I want?

Well, yeah; Synthedit or Reaktor or something similar.

But subject to what I already said.

Do SynthEdit or Reaktor allow algorithmic control of the effect parameters?

Yes, if the algorithmic control can be built in Synthedit or Reaktor. Synthedit has an SDK if you cant build it with what's already included.

[whyterabbyt]

So you want a VST host with internal automation that is also a VST plugin and can run inside a DAW?

The ideal solution is a visual editor that allows importing existing audio plugins, connect them to each other, control their parameters by scripts, listen the resulting sound in the visual editor, and finally export all the components as alone audio plugin to use it in any DAW).

You wont get that. Including existing plugins into a new plugin has significant legal ramifications, so nothing does it. Once upon a time Synthedit allowed it, but it was a copyright minefield , and it was pulled as a feature.

[whyterabbyt]

Generally speaking, I just need apply my algorithm of parameters changing to ready-made effects.

In that case, you're on the host side of the equation, not the effect side. Parameter control is either in the plugin or its in the host.

And while some hosts let you wrap up chains of effects for reuse as 'racks' or 'containers' or 'templates', that's all internal, and locked to that host, and only usually includes access to the existing parameters.

The one thing that comes close is something like Bidule, which can be a host-within-a-host. But that has its own implications.

Very few hosts have anything close to scripting for parameter control, though. And, again, those that do, are entirely internal systems.

None of these things, or any other things, let you wrap someone else's plugins up inside your own stuff and make a new plugin out of that.

[Unaspected]

Reads like the OP wants a container plugin, like Patcher in FL Studio. A number of DAWs have such a feature but not all.

Pure Data might work out as it can load VSTs - as far as I recall - though I never employed that feature when I was using it.

If the OP is happy enough with general processing effects and doesn't have any specific third-party plugins in mind then Reaktor or Synthedit might be good options - but there will be a bit of a learning curve - as with PD.

[whyterabbyt]

Reads like the OP wants a container plugin, like Patcher in FL Studio.

Yes, but one where the automation of parameters of the hosted plugins can be scripted by his own code, and that can export a new plugin.

The second of those isnt possible. And the first one doesnt really exist the way he seems to want it to. There's no subhost Im aware of with a built-in scripting language. Bidule's the only one I could think of with sufficiently low-level modules that can also drive parameters, and even then not convinced it can be algorithmic enough for what they might want.
Im not convinced by plugin-PureData hosting plugins... my recollection is that its not that great as a plugin.

Also, there's the consideration of parameter (non!) exposure by the subhost (container plugin) to the main host.