Roman Numerals

[Seventeenseventyfour]

I would be very grateful if someone could please notate and explain the roman numerals for the section from bars 9 to 13 (after the repeats) in the attachment.

Many thanks,

1774

[zerocrossing]

My public schools never taught Roman numerals, nor did we have any clocks with them in our house. After 3 I start getting lost. That said, I don’t see any Roman numerals on. That page at all.

[Erisian]

Nope. Can't see any Roman numerals there at all.

[vurt]

they mean youre seeing things.

[Hink]

My public schools never taught Roman numerals, nor did we have any clocks with them in our house. After 3 I start getting lost. That said, I don’t see any Roman numerals on. That page at all.

just curious because same with Asher,,,can you read an analog clock? Please dont be offended by that, I know it can come across like it's a shot but it isnt. A lot schools stopped teaching analog clocks, cursive handwriting...personally I prefer an analog clock and no lie, my favorite ones are Roman Numerals.

BTW After 3 should have been After III because I first read that as you giving up on Roman Numbers at the age of 3 (honestly I was impressed, at three I thought romans were people who walked around with the business end of a broom on their head)

FTR everyone, I have noted there were no such numbers from a new member...my eyes are open

[chk071]

Nope. Can't see any Roman numerals there at all.

Me neither.

[Hink]

My public schools never taught Roman numerals, nor did we have any clocks with them in our house. After 3 I start getting lost. That said, I don’t see any Roman numerals on. That page at all.

just curious because same with Asher,,,can you read an analog clock? Please dont be offended by that, I know it can come across like it's a shot but it isnt. A lot schools stopped teaching analog clocks, cursive handwriting...personally I prefer an analog clock and no lie, my favorite ones are Roman Numerals.

BTW After 3 should have been After III because I first read that as you giving up on Roman Numbers at the age of 3 (honestly I was impressed, at three I thought romans were people who walked around with the business end of a broom on their head)

FTR everyone, I have noted there were no such numbers from a new member...my eyes are open

[KBSoundSmith]

I would be very grateful if someone could please notate and explain the roman numerals for the section from bars 9 to 13 (after the repeats) in the attachment.

Many thanks,

1774

Hmm. Not in the practice of doing other people's homework for them. That isn't what is happening, is it?

Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that you're in a music theory class and have a textbook. Reread the sections on secondary dominants, tonicization, and modulation (also determine the form of the excerpt -- that will give a strong hint as to how a roman numeral analysis should be applied).

[Hink]

I would be very grateful if someone could please notate and explain the roman numerals for the section from bars 9 to 13 (after the repeats) in the attachment.

Many thanks,

1774

Hmm. Not in the practice of doing other people's homework for them. That isn't what is happening, is it?

well that's likely what we expected to believe

[Seventeenseventyfour]

I would be very grateful if someone could please notate and explain the roman numerals for the section from bars 9 to 13 (after the repeats) in the attachment.

Many thanks,

1774

Hmm. Not in the practice of doing other people's homework for them. That isn't what is happening, is it?

Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that you're in a music theory class and have a textbook. Reread the sections on secondary dominants, tonicization, and modulation (also determine the form of the excerpt -- that will give a strong hint as to how a roman numeral analysis should be applied).

Trust me, my homework days are long gone. And if i had been given this during my schooling years - I would've been well and truly stumped!

To be honest, I think I can just about work out the whole section, but i just can't figure out what the darn is going on in bar 10 specifically. Any information you can give me regarding just that one bar in particular? I suspect some kind of secondary dominant, but I don't know if i'm close, or way off. Thanks for the pointers though - much appreciated.

[Jafo]

In academic music theory roman numerals denote chords based on a home tonic; in C, the ii is dmin, V7 is G7. Hindu-Arabic numerals (1 2 3 4) usually represent figured bass. I'm not sure what they're doing here; in some cases, it looks a lot like indicating which fingers to use to play a passage... except that fingering those a's like that makes no sense.

Bonus section! Hindu-Arabic numerals with carets ("pointy hats") usually indicate scale steps (in C, 2^ is d, 5^ is g).

Please keep in mind that European classical music is far from the only valid way of making music.

[KBSoundSmith]

I would be very grateful if someone could please notate and explain the roman numerals for the section from bars 9 to 13 (after the repeats) in the attachment.

Many thanks,

1774

Hmm. Not in the practice of doing other people's homework for them. That isn't what is happening, is it?

Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that you're in a music theory class and have a textbook. Reread the sections on secondary dominants, tonicization, and modulation (also determine the form of the excerpt -- that will give a strong hint as to how a roman numeral analysis should be applied).

Trust me, my homework days are long gone. And if i had been given this during my schooling years - I would've been well and truly stumped!

To be honest, I think I can just about work out the whole section, but i just can't figure out what the darn is going on in bar 10 specifically. Any information you can give me regarding just that one bar in particular? I suspect some kind of secondary dominant, but I don't know if i'm close, or way off. Thanks for the pointers though - much appreciated.

Sure. I'll give you a hint to help you figure it out; give it a go, then I can check your answer. Here's the hint: the first section starts in D Major and modulates to a new key; the second section starts in the new key and then returns to D Major. To get the correct Roman numeral analysis of bar 10, you will have to determine what the new key was, and you have to determine where the return to D Major occurs.

[Seventeenseventyfour]

I would be very grateful if someone could please notate and explain the roman numerals for the section from bars 9 to 13 (after the repeats) in the attachment.

Many thanks,

1774

Hmm. Not in the practice of doing other people's homework for them. That isn't what is happening, is it?

Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that you're in a music theory class and have a textbook. Reread the sections on secondary dominants, tonicization, and modulation (also determine the form of the excerpt -- that will give a strong hint as to how a roman numeral analysis should be applied).

Trust me, my homework days are long gone. And if i had been given this during my schooling years - I would've been well and truly stumped!

To be honest, I think I can just about work out the whole section, but i just can't figure out what the darn is going on in bar 10 specifically. Any information you can give me regarding just that one bar in particular? I suspect some kind of secondary dominant, but I don't know if i'm close, or way off. Thanks for the pointers though - much appreciated.

Sure. I'll give you a hint to help you figure it out; give it a go, then I can check your answer. Here's the hint: the first section starts in D Major and modulates to a new key; the second section starts in the new key and then returns to D Major. To get the correct Roman numeral analysis of bar 10, you will have to determine what the new key was, and you have to determine where the return to D Major occurs.

Apologies, i may be talking about what could be considered bar 9 (the one after the first bar of the second section with a, g sharp solo line, and with a B & dsharp in the bass clef). I had the modulation down occurring earlier than the second section, so perhaps i'm more lost than i thought. The return to dmaj occurs in the second half of bar 9, I think, however, I can't quite place the first chord of that bar as d sharp does not belong to either that or the modulation (so can't place it's R.N's. I considered further modulation to accommodate d sharp, but is this necessary/ best practice for such a short time?

[KBSoundSmith]

To be clear, the modulation to the new key occurs in the first section (before the repeat). The second section (after the repeat) continues on in the newly established key, then later returns to the original key. You are correct, the return to D Major occurs in the second half of bar 9 (I wrote the wrong bar number above, sorry for the confusion).

On to some hints. In this case, to accommodate the D#, you do not have to state an additional modulation -- again, if you have a theory text, review secondary dominants, tonicization, and modulation to decide what is happening in the passage. (extra hint: all three concepts are utilized in this piece of music).

On analyzing bar 9. First, what are the chords (ie, is it a G Major Triad, an eb minor triad, etc)? Be clear and specify them. Then, look at the root movement of the chords -- what is their relationship? To make that easier, I'll give you the root movement of bar 9: B -> E -> A -> D. What is the relationship of each root to the next (extra hint: circle of f....)?

[Seventeenseventyfour]

To be clear, the modulation to the new key occurs in the first section (before the repeat). The second section (after the repeat) continues on in the newly established key, then later returns to the original key. You are correct, the return to D Major occurs in the second half of bar 9 (I wrote the wrong bar number above, sorry for the confusion).

On to some hints. In this case, to accommodate the D#, you do not have to state an additional modulation -- again, if you have a theory text, review secondary dominants, tonicization, and modulation to decide what is happening in the passage. (extra hint: all three concepts are utilized in this piece of music).

On analyzing bar 9. First, what are the chords (ie, is it a G Major Triad, an eb minor triad, etc)? Be clear and specify them. Then, look at the root movement of the chords -- what is their relationship? To make that easier, I'll give you the root movement of bar 9: B -> E -> A -> D. What is the relationship of each root to the next (extra hint: circle of f....)?

Have PM'ed you