So... Is Guitar Rig dead?

[zerocrossing]

Some need mainframe access that for security reasons they don't want vpn etc access.
But maybe you can show them how.

A Lot of content are not done in house by NI.
rsp

I worked for a small company that was contracted to do work for Microsoft and they were insanely security minded and VPN access was fine for them. I only had an issue if my computer automatically updated and restarted. Someone had to be in the office to log me into Bitlocker.

[zvenx]

NI would have to share with you their exact reasons, I can't.
rsp

[Winstontaneous]

So .... What's the verdict on Bass Invader , Chicago , and Fire Breather ? If you don't have any other amp sims and are a Komplete 12 license holders .... Are these 3 amps and the effects rack worth it the upgrade ? I've been sitting on this .... $199 upgrade for K13 .

I'll speak to Bass Invader, I love it. It's an emulation of the Gallien-Krueger 400RB bass head, I've had one since '87 (and have owned other Gallien-Krueger bass amps). Bass Invader captures the distinct solid-state grind of the original extremely well. The 400RB comes from a time when bass amps weren't expected to deliver ultra low-end, and in fact were voiced to compensate for the dark/muddy/harsh cabinets of the time. Bass Invader's tone can be warm or biting, or in between, but has enough "hair" to poke through a mix. I bought GR6 for this emulation, as well as the addition of the Softube RC reverbs and Solid SSL emus, and haven't been disappointed.

[fedexnman]

Thanks ! Yes , I was really really interested in the Bass Invader . Glad to know what it's modeled after the GK and how you described what it can do . 99% of the time it's acoustic guitar , so this Guitar Rig thing is gonna be new to me , should be fun to fool with some bass and electric guitar sounds now .

[CircuitEYE]

no.
it just smells funny.

They fixed that in the newest update.
Now it smells like new car smell.

[Obsolete462444]

NI products have a tendency of sounding digital and ovetly bright, but I thought their new modelling approach takes GR more into "analogish" territory?

I also wonder why none of the new technology made in into GR Player?

On the positive side: I do really like the new UI style.

Native Access is a PITA though for anyone who prefers to keep audio workstations offline.

[simon.a.billington]

Although, NI has new management who are looking to create a more unified product line. Who knows how they will drive things forward beyond that.

If you look at the new NI management team,it is clear that their strategy of establishing a unified product line will be focused on the financial side of the equation...

There will be the usual management speak with lots of rhetorical BS,but the private equity debt has to be paid back and there is only one way to balance a ledger and bring it into profit

Yes that is all true. It would seem that their initial intention isnt to strip everything down to its barest essential and put it on a life support like other takeovers.

You'd be a foolish not to acknowledge that music making is a HUGE market that isn't going away. And you'd be foolish to buy one of the biggest market movers only to tear it all down. So you can bet whatever they have planned will be to take what they have, nurture it and find ways to reach a bigger market. On the surface of it that is actually what their goal appears to be.

Mind you, even good management can screw up somewhere.

[simon.a.billington]

NI products have a tendency of sounding digital and ovetly bright, but I thought their new modelling approach takes GR more into "analogish" territory?

I also wonder why none of the new technology made in into GR Player?

On the positive side: I do really like the new UI style.

Native Access is a PITA though for anyone who prefers to keep audio workstations offline.

I have less of an issue with this because I work at 96k. That helps to alleviate some aliasing issues of non oversampling plugins. A subtle filter on the high end can help too.

[Obsolete462444]

I have less of an issue with this because I work at 96k. That helps to alleviate some aliasing issues of non oversampling plugins. A subtle filter on the high end can help too.

Personally I won't switch to 96k just so that I can use badly sounding plugins. 96k is not a good sample rate anyway, if the final medium is 44.1k. You would want to use 88.2 k then, which I also don't use due to causing approximately 100% extra CPU load for very little to none sonic benefit.

I use plugins that avoid bad aliasing right from the start or have optional oversampling (ideally different options for realtime and offline rendering). Dan Worrall made a perfect video on the subject!

https://youtu.be/-jCwIsT0X8M

[audiouser720]

I have less of an issue with this because I work at 96k. That helps to alleviate some aliasing issues of non oversampling plugins. A subtle filter on the high end can help too.

Personally I won't switch to 96k just so that I can use badly sounding plugins. 96k is not a good sample rate anyway, if the final medium is 44.1k. You would want to use 88.2 k then, which I also don't use due to causing approximately 100% extra CPU load for very little to none sonic benefit.

I use plugins that avoid bad aliasing right from the start or have optional oversampling (ideally different options for realtime and offline rendering). Dan Worrall made a perfect video on the subject!

https://youtu.be/-jCwIsT0X8M

Can you tell which NI plugins are you talking about?

Because as far as I am concerned NI Massive X and NI Monark are the most analog sounding plugins out of all (not just NI but everything). And no aliasing either.

[EvilDragon]

96k is not a good sample rate anyway, if the final medium is 44.1k.

Well, this entirely depends on which sample rate converter you're using. If using SoX at its highest quality, there are no problems in using 96k source to create a final 44.1k render - it's practically perfect.

[Obsolete462444]

Can you tell which NI plugins are you talking about?

Because as far as I am concerned NI Massive X and NI Monark are the most analog sounding plugins out of all (not just NI but everything). And no aliasing either.

My initial comment about NI products having a tendency towards sounding overly digital made no reference to aliasing, another user opened this separate issue and I responded. Please reread if the context got missing for you while skimming through the thread (no offense).

Monark is great and specifically renown for being one of the finest analog synth emulations, Massive X is a proudly digital wavetable synth on the other hand.

My experience with an overly digital sound of NI products spans across the Maschine factory library and most Maschine expansions (many overprocessed, loud but nearly lifeless sounds), original Massive, most of the synths included in Komplete Select for Maschine users, their SSL bus comp and even their Xmas freebies (a great gesture though) like Driver and Raum. And of course Guitar Rig, which unlike other guitar emulations sounded nowhere near a real guitar or bass amp (speaking about GR 5 and before, did not try the latest).

And basically everything made in Reaktor previous to the introduction of more analog sounding modules (like the Monark stuff) sounds brightly digital.

I did not say each and every NI product, I used the term "tendency", so it's more like a trend that becomes noticable, but there are exceptions like their great Tube Series, their Vintage Comps (both incidentally not coded by NI in-house guys) and Monark.

[audiouser720]

Can you tell which NI plugins are you talking about?

Because as far as I am concerned NI Massive X and NI Monark are the most analog sounding plugins out of all (not just NI but everything). And no aliasing either.

My initial comment about NI products having a tendency towards sounding overly digital made no reference to aliasing, another user opened this separate issue and I responded. Please reread if the context got missing for you while skimming through the thread (no offense).

Monark is great and specifically renown for being one of the finest analog synth emulations, Massive X is a proudly digital wavetable synth on the other hand.

My experience with an overly digital sound of NI products spans across the Maschine factory library and most Maschine expansions (many overprocessed, loud but nearly lifeless sounds), original Massive, most of the synths included in Komplete Select for Maschine users, their SSL bus comp and even their Xmas freebies (a great gesture though) like Driver and Raum. And of course Guitar Rig, which unlike other guitar emulations sounded nowhere near a real guitar or bass amp (speaking about GR 5 and before, did not try the latest).

And basically everything made in Reaktor previous to the introduction of more analog sounding modules (like the Monark stuff) sounds brightly digital.

I did not say each and every NI product, I used the term "tendency", so it's more like a trend that becomes noticable, but there are exceptions like their great Tube Series, their Vintage Comps (both incidentally not coded by NI in-house guys) and Monark.

Yes, I get it. I must have misread the bit about the aliasing (probably it was another poster and I mixed and matched).

I’m curious though (as always when this pops up) what kind of analog gear do you own, what is your process and what is it you are comparing to?

I’m no way about to defend NI and their products (I don’t think they are worth the price generally speaking but the DSP of Massive X is 100%) but I always take opinions like this with a pinch of salt.

People say something sounds digital even without ever owning anything analog (I’m not saying you are like that).

Massive X is utterly digital of course (it’s a plugin) but the DSP of the filters and envelopes are so accurately analog modelled that I can easily simulate so many sounds of my Matriarch, Grandmother, Model D Reissue, Prophet 5 rev4 and my shitty old sh101. No other soft synth sounds so 3D (however you can describe that) than my analogs. Strobe 2 is close second for Roland type sounds.

Guitar Rig in the right hands can build patches very similar to my H3000 (which is digital but because of the conversion (I believe) no plugin will ever sound like it). But with all the modulators in Guitar Rig I can really say for sure that it is ‘poor mans’ eventide.

So anyway as always I am just wondering what analog gear you own and compare to. Which SSL series do you have that you are comparing NI SSL comp to?

[Obsolete462444]

Let's not turn this into a battle of who is right or wrong, I have to assume bad faith regarding your rhetorical questions.

You don't have too own an SSL console or bus compressor (which semi-pro does by the way?) to tell that a certain plugin sounds more harsh, digitally generic, digitally clipped or bright than another or that a certain plugin lacks natural or analog characteristics, such as the timbre associated with analog recording chains. NI's SSL comp (which I own) is one of the worst attempts and it has been analysed and compared to death over at GS.

They found it uses a generic compression envelope nowhere close to a real SSL Bus Comp. If you cannot hear the difference between NI SSL Bus Comp and The Glue without owning the real hardware, then I really don't know what to say. Its just too obvious.

Both are ultimately digital plugins, but one makes a sophisticated attempt to model the behaviour known from analog gear, while the other fails to do so. If you want good analogesque stuff from NI get the externally coded Premium Tube Series and their Vintage Comps, they are really good.

There is nothing wrong if you enjoy the sound of Guitar Rig or Massive or Massive X, there is a huge market for these sounds and they are highly popular in EDM and related genres. It's a matter of personal preference.

[audiouser720]

Let's not turn this into a battle of who is right or wrong, I have to assume bad faith regarding your rhetorical questions.

You don't have too own an SSL console or bus compressor (which semi-pro does by the way?) to tell that a certain plugin sounds more harsh, digitally generic, digitally clipped or bright than another or that a certain plugin lacks natural or analog characteristics, such as the timbre associated with analog recording chains. NI's SSL comp (which I own) is one of the worst attempts and it has been analysed and compared to death over at GS.

They found it uses a generic compression envelope nowhere close to a real SSL Bus Comp. If you cannot hear the difference between NI SSL Bus Comp and The Glue without owning the real hardware, then I really don't know what to say. Its just too obvious.

Both are ultimately digital plugins, but one makes a sophisticated attempt to model the behaviour known from analog gear, while the other fails to do so. If you want good analogesque stuff from NI get the externally coded Premium Tube Series and their Vintage Comps, they are really good.

There is nothing wrong if you enjoy the sound of Guitar Rig or Massive or Massive X, there is a huge market for these sounds and they are highly popular in EDM and related genres. It's a matter of personal preference.

I did not mean to turn this in a battle or offend you in anyway.

But I also have no more question...

I can assure you I can tell the difference amongst many different analog/digital hardware (synths and effect processors) and plugins.

Analog emulation only makes sense if you understand analog behaviour. Everything else (sounding good/harsh/digital) is relative and personal until there is an obvious and proven fall in the coding (e.g. aliasing/ incorrect frequency and or phase response or any inaccuracies compared to the original device etc).

Cytomic is the only developer that I’m aware of who managed to component model so precisely a compressor and a filter and the result is almost (but is) distinguishable from the original one.

In terms of NI plugins sounding harsh and digital I can tell you this: they look harsh and digital. Sound is again... relative.

Semi-pro has nothing to do with owning/using expensive equipment. I know people in million dollar studios who should be cleaning toilets and know kids with a laptop who should be promoted everywhere - although talent is one thing... being able to hear the difference and the affects in context of using hardware and plugins is another.

Anyway... again no offence and no battle. Respect and love and all of that.

Back to topic. I think that Guitar Rig is not about the sound but is about the modulation capabilities and how you can combine all the effect components. The new GUI is awesome. Sometimes arrangement/technique/creative sound design can end up sounding more warm than an analog emulation anything in itself and I think Guitar Rig is very capable of that. I just wish they removed the guitar bit from it.