Thank you. Updated.
Tracking Apple Silicon Native Hosts, Plugins, Effects
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1877 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
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- KVRAF
- 5427 posts since 18 Jul, 2002
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- KVRAF
- 2675 posts since 14 Jul, 2005 from Australia
More Voxengo goodies, this time SPAN Plus - https://www.voxengo.com/press/voxengo-s ... eased-425/
- KVRAF
- 2032 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA
Although still running under Rosetta, Image-Line's just released FL Studio v20.8.2 shows a massive performance boost. In my case previously unplayable projects are running very smoothly now, even at low buffer sizes. This bodes really well for their upcoming native build which they say is still a few months away. Interesting IL quote about this:
"The Rosetta compliant build is doing this by replacing Intel specific Assembly with ARM functions. So yes it contains ARM specific code."
"The Rosetta compliant build is doing this by replacing Intel specific Assembly with ARM functions. So yes it contains ARM specific code."
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1877 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
I'm glad they are working on a native port, but that response is pure BS. It absolutely does not "contain ARM specific code." These are exactly the kind of games that I hate that devs are currently playing with the term "native".
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
- KVRAF
- 2032 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA
Oh really? Interesting. I don't know much about it, but whatever they did improved Rosetta performance by 2 or 3 times compared to v20.8.1. Perhaps it was something else which they're not sharing.
- KVRAF
- 2032 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA
That makes sense, but I get the impression this is a debate over semantics because when they said "ARM specific code" I don't think they're implying the current version is ARM native at all. They make no claim of that and say it's still several months away. According to Image-Line the main reason why versions prior to 20.8 wouldn't work on M1 is because of specific x86 assembler optimizations which Rosetta couldn't translate correctly. They must know something about ARM functions to properly optimize it for translation.
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- KVRAF
- 5427 posts since 18 Jul, 2002
That's very likely what happened but it should be stated as Rosetta 2 compatible, not U2B. Stating it contains ARM specific code only happens via Apple's x64 to ARM converter. You be the judge about that.Tronam wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:11 amAccording to Image-Line the main reason why versions prior to 20.8 wouldn't work on M1 is because of specific x86 assembler optimizations which Rosetta couldn't translate correctly. They must know something about ARM functions to properly optimize it for translation.
Anyway based on Apple past actions Rosetta 2 should be removed in a few years and the developers who were advertising their products as "ARM compatible" will get a lot of pissed customers.
Sound Magic has updated Nameless Grand with U2B support at KVR database but after contacting the developer asking about native Apple Silicon compatibility he stated it's running via Rosetta 2 so he's likely to remove the tag until it gets a native ARM build.
Looks like we're going to see this misleading U2B tag trend happening for quite a while. No reply from KVR on this matter btw.
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- KVRAF
- 6462 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
I haven't found anything that didn't work on Big Sur intel that didn't work on Big Sur M1 via rosetta tho.Tronam wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:11 am
That makes sense, but I get the impression this is a debate over semantics because when they said "ARM specific code" I don't think they're implying the current version is ARM native at all. They make no claim of that and say it's still several months away. According to Image-Line the main reason why versions prior to 20.8 wouldn't work on M1 is because of specific x86 assembler optimizations which Rosetta couldn't translate correctly. They must know something about ARM functions to properly optimize it for translation.
If there's anything ARM specific it simply wouldn't work on Intel because there's no rosetta to run ARM on x86.
- KVRAF
- 2032 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA
Right, but I'd guess the FL Studio application does a system check and knows it's running on Intel, so it uses different assembly code for those functions.Ploki wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:49 amI haven't found anything that didn't work on Big Sur intel that didn't work on Big Sur M1 via rosetta tho.Tronam wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:11 am
That makes sense, but I get the impression this is a debate over semantics because when they said "ARM specific code" I don't think they're implying the current version is ARM native at all. They make no claim of that and say it's still several months away. According to Image-Line the main reason why versions prior to 20.8 wouldn't work on M1 is because of specific x86 assembler optimizations which Rosetta couldn't translate correctly. They must know something about ARM functions to properly optimize it for translation.
If there's anything ARM specific it simply wouldn't work on Intel because there's no rosetta to run ARM on x86.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1877 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
Maybe. But it's still x64 assembly it's running. There are certain x64 instructions, such as AVX, which will not translate to Arm, since it's fundamentally incompatible with Neon. Honestly, this is no different than what any Intel binary does when it sees that the current processor does not support AVX.Tronam wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:24 pmRight, but I'd guess the FL Studio application does a system check and knows it's running on Intel, so it uses different assembly code for those functions.Ploki wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:49 amI haven't found anything that didn't work on Big Sur intel that didn't work on Big Sur M1 via rosetta tho.Tronam wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:11 am
That makes sense, but I get the impression this is a debate over semantics because when they said "ARM specific code" I don't think they're implying the current version is ARM native at all. They make no claim of that and say it's still several months away. According to Image-Line the main reason why versions prior to 20.8 wouldn't work on M1 is because of specific x86 assembler optimizations which Rosetta couldn't translate correctly. They must know something about ARM functions to properly optimize it for translation.
If there's anything ARM specific it simply wouldn't work on Intel because there's no rosetta to run ARM on x86.
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.