Reason+ = subscription model (20€ month)

[antic604]

The question is how many users use and would pay for the DAW and how many would prefer having a faster developed rack.

I guess Mattias' statement answers that. Likewise their CEO's tweet at the beginning of the year, where he said 2020 was their best year ever.

Me knowing this, does not mean I have to like that direction

I'm happy for you - and many others - that do

[JackJackdaw]

You guys should sell reason rack vst separately with some instruments included .

Thanks for the feedback!

To be frank, it'd probably just be the same price as buying Reason today though. Reason is the rack and you can use it as a plug-in or standalone with its own sequencer and mixer etc., similar to how you can use Reaktor standalone or as a plug-in or use FL Studio standalone or as a plug-in but you only buy one product. At least that's how we think about the product.

Oh gosh. So if Reason is the Rack, then the value of Sequencer & Mixer is basically zero, hence any investment in them is a waste of money

Thanks, I hear you loud & clear.

Don't worry, there are plenty of bugs, missing functionality and complete lack of updates for rack devices as well!

Can't see the sub model working out long term for Reason . How long can they keep churning out sound packs before they start repeating themselves? And I can't recall ever seeing a single user ever including subscription and sound packs in their dream feature requests. I have to agree with the general sentiment that it stinks of corporate opportunism.

[Greenstorm33]

If Reason is the Rack and synonymous with something like Reaktor or Voltage Modular, then doing away with Reason Intro is like Cherry Audio bundling Voltage Modular and all their first party modules together in a $350 package and the only way to get VM is to buy that or get it all through a subscription. Which they're never going to do because
a.) they'll make more money offering cheaper packages because not only will there be a greater volume of sales but it hooks way more people into their ecosystem, some of whom will purchase additional modules a la carte or upgrade to a more expensive version once they realize how much they like the software and
b.) a move like that would totally screw over developers on their platform because even if the strategy were economically viable for Cherry there would be way fewer users to buy third party modules.

[bangaio]

Busy wow. Reason studios (still a shot company name) see the rack as the product. I’m pretty sure the founding fathers of the company didn’t see if that way. As a user since v1 that wasn’t how it was both designed and sold to us. I know this because the company was super up front and open about their progress and what they were working on and the ethos behind it.

Now they’re pumping sound packs for £20 a month and a rack that is really meant to be used elsewhere because, “you know, elsewhere is better than what we can produce”. I wonder how the original company has become the Mattias and Ryan show where all their ideas are just awesome.

[Tronam]

Why subscribe to Reason+ when you could instead sign up for a $25/mo subscription for the newly announced iZotope Ozone Pro? You wouldn't want to miss any of those all important Ozone 9 updates!

[ShawnG]

Busy wow. Reason studios (still a shot company name) see the rack as the product. I’m pretty sure the founding fathers of the company didn’t see if that way. As a user since v1 that wasn’t how it was both designed and sold to us. I know this because the company was super up front and open about their progress and what they were working on and the ethos behind it.

Now they’re pumping sound packs for £20 a month and a rack that is really meant to be used elsewhere because, “you know, elsewhere is better than what we can produce”. I wonder how the original company has become the Mattias and Ryan show where all their ideas are just awesome.

So, Propellerhead originally wanted this to be a DAW and just waited 10 years and six versions before they made it one? I mean, I didn't buy it until version 5 with Record for the fact that I wanted a DAW, and it wasn't one previous to that, just a rack with a rudimentary MIDI sequencer meant to be ReWired into Cubase or Live.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love the DAW. I use it just as much now as before the Rack plugin came about. It has it's own charms. But the core of Reason has always been the rack. And who can blame the company for focusing on the pretty well received rack plugin, when everyone but hardcore users of the DAW do nothing but crap all over it in forums like these?

[antic604]

...when everyone but hardcore users of the DAW do nothing but crap all over it in forums like these?

I don't see people "crapping all over" Cubase or Studio One's arrangers or mixers.

Why could that be?! Hmmm...

[imrae]

As far as I can tell it still isn't possible to loop or link midi items. So there's no reasonable workflow to e.g. work on a 2-bar drum loop while listening to a 16-bar bass line. What a joke.

[antic604]

Wrong thread

[ShawnG]

...when everyone but hardcore users of the DAW do nothing but crap all over it in forums like these?

I don't see people "crapping all over" Cubase or Studio One's arrangers or mixers.

Why could that be?! Hmmm...

Not sure exactly what you are trying to say, or how it relates to my post, but... OK?

I mean, there are certainly deficiencies in either product that one could crap all over, if one were inclined to. I vastly prefer Reason's Blocks to Cubase's arrange function, for example, but I'm not going to sit here and try to claim that in sum total those products aren't considered top shelf by many users for a reason. I like using the Reason DAW because I like it, it fits me, I rarely need a feature that it doesn't have, and when I do, I have Cubase, Bitwig, and Live installed as well.

But even from that perspective, it's not hard to realize that in a pure feature for feature fight with the other DAWs on the market, Reason isn't going to win that fight. And rather than wait for RS to pony up every feature every other DAW already has, you can just use the rack, which is the core of the Reason experience since Day 1, in another DAW, without farting around with rewire. which makes it a more attractive purchase for people who hate using the DAW. For people like me, who like the DAW already, there are a couple of basic things I'd like to see added, like folder tracks, but I don't really want them to try to match features with the big dogs. No point. Be what you are.

[antic604]

Not sure exactly what you are trying to say, or how it relates to my post, but... OK?

I was replying to this:

...And who can blame the company for focusing on the pretty well received rack plugin, when everyone but hardcore users of the DAW do nothing but crap all over it in forums like these?

Well, I do. And many others do. If something in your product doesn't work but is still used, relied upon and hoped to be developed further by thousands of users who invested lots of money in it and surrounding environment; dumping it and focusing all the efforts elsewhere isn't the solution to the problem. And the company shouldn't be surprised by the backlash.

As I said, I don't think Reason = Rack. IMO, it's the interaction and synergy between Rack, Sequencer and Mixer that you don't get running Rack Plugin in other DAWs, not to mention both the Sequencer and Mixer have some unique features not found elsewhere.

[ShawnG]

Well, I do. And many others do. If something in your product doesn't work but is still used, relied upon and hoped to be developed further by thousands of users who invested lots of money in it and surrounding environment; dumping it and focusing all the efforts elsewhere isn't the solution to the problem. And the company shouldn't be surprised by the backlash.

As I said, I don't think Reason = Rack. IMO, it's the interaction and synergy between Rack, Sequencer and Mixer that you don't get running Rack Plugin in other DAWs, not to mention both the Sequencer and Mixer have some unique features not found elsewhere.

well, the "dumping it and focusing all the efforts elsewhere" is hyperbole, and based on an assumption and a fear, and without those things the argument falls apart. Now to be fair, the assumption might eventually be correct, and the fear borne out, but right now that's all it is. I expect there to be continued development on the DAW, as well as things that benefit both, like the hi res GUI upgrade. I don't expect Reason to compete head to head with the top tier DAW's in feature count, that's an unrealistic expectation, and an impossible one without the addition of paying users that the rack plugin brings. I've been requesting a VST version of the rack for years, not because I don't love the DAW, but because I don't always work in it, and I'd like to have some of the reason magic with me when I'm not.

[antic604]

well, the "dumping it and focusing all the efforts elsewhere" is hyperbole, and based on an assumption and a fear, and without those things the argument falls apart.

No, it does not. Their actions over the last years, marketing language they use and even the Reason+ subscription service support that hypothesis - without the need for assumptions and fear

Regarding hi-DPI upgrade, users have been begging this for years but RS only started working on this quite recently. Why? Because old Reason users were conditioned over the years to use 1080p screens (or huge 4K TVs) and accepted the low-res GUI, whereas in last year a new huge wave of complaints came from other DAW users, about RRP being tiny - or blurry - on their 4K screens & laptops. You can't have that in your flagship product, from your new-found "core" user base now, can you?

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong! I will upgrade to v12 the day it comes out, but mostly because I'm locked in with $1,5-2k of Propelerhead and 3rd party REs I bought and can't sell. Otherwise my licenses would already be up for sale.

[imrae]

As I said, I don't think Reason = Rack. IMO, it's the interaction and synergy between Rack, Sequencer and Mixer that you don't get running Rack Plugin in other DAWs, not to mention both the Sequencer and Mixer have some unique features not found elsewhere.

This. Hosting a few plugins and automating some parameters isn't really that special these days. But making CV routings between channels is very easy in Reason and quite difficult elsewhere. Recording samples directly into instruments is very easy in Reason and quite difficult elsewhere. Likewise for Groove Mixing, attaching sequencers to VST parameters...

None of that stuff works in the rack

[MuzikFreq]

I tried something last night that blewy mind and not sure why it isn't talked about more, their time stretching is by far the best I have ever heard, took a loop and stretched it from 4 bars to 16bars and it didn't get the usual digital wonkyness or the artifact to heck sound.
I find that I really like reason for it's browser, their own tools, and the sequencer just works... I guess I don't really sit there and do much for crazy analytical editing.
The rack is awesome as well.
Hi res mode doesn't bother me so much because I think 4k on a pc monitor is too much, it actually comes at a diminishing return as it makes everything super tiny and is pointless on small screens.
I have a 1080p laptop and a 1440p 32" monitor on my main pc and have 0 issues seeing anything