Massive X 1.4 update!

[EvilDragon]

You have plenty of modulation shaping power in Equator/Strobe/Cypher too... They were literally made with MPE in mind.


Vital is very good and does some neat tricks. But MX is sound-wise so, so, so much better overall. Just shows that you don't really need user wavetables as a necessity, or in order to sound good (that's not to say MX won't eventually be able to support user wavetables). Why not first explore what's already in there (and there's a lot, and all the phase distortion modes are months of fun quite literally - they in essence multiply the amount of wavetables that you get with MX)?

[ThomasHelzle]

You have plenty of modulation shaping power in Equator/Strobe/Cypher too... They were literally made with MPE in mind.
Vital is very good and does some neat tricks. But MX is sound-wise so, so, so much better overall. Just shows that you don't really need user wavetables as a necessity, or in order to sound good (that's not to say MX won't eventually be able to support user wavetables). Why not first explore what's already in there (and there's a lot, and all the phase distortion modes are months of fun quite literally - they in essence multiply the amount of wavetables that you get with MX)?

Very simple: I don't like to use either of them where Vital directly clicked.
I don't have Equator2 and no plan buying it because of Rolis antics as a company (they're this kind of would-be-NI, Windows 10 only, always online, stupid installers...) so I don't know about that one.

"Having MPE in mind" doesn't always help if that mind has other issues...

Good for you if those are your thing.

Cheers,

Tom

[Sinisterbr]

Yeah, it's funny how those behemoths seem to fold back into themselves like a kind of corporate black hole.
Over a certain size, even banal things that the same entity did before when it was smaller - and did it well - suddenly become part of a "bigger picture", some ambitious unified codebase or whatever or - even worse - get part of a "corporate strategy" like pressing KompleteKontrol onto everybody (what an apt name... ).
At this point, I personally no longer expect anything clever from NI.
There is much more fun to be had with smaller developers.

Cheers,

Tom

Speaking of smaller developers...

It is quite a comparison between MX and Vital. Vital can import user wavetables and has a capable wavetable creator/editor. It has fantastic MPE support (no synth is better for MPE). It has full parameter automation and midi learn. It has a simple but usable browser. The LFO's are in an entirely different league compared to the very limited MX LFO's. Vital has a great modulation system. And Vital is from one person and is available for free (I bought the Pro version to support the developer).

Okay, but I'm personally getting tired of people bringing this comparison to this thread once again.

I've got my share of criticisms to NI/ MX, but I still like it very much. Vital can't touch MX sound quality, period.
Now, please, let's just focus on Massive X here. If you like Vital, fine, but go praise it in its own thread.

[Sinisterbr]

You have plenty of modulation shaping power in Equator/Strobe/Cypher too... They were literally made with MPE in mind.


Vital is very good and does some neat tricks. But MX is sound-wise so, so, so much better overall. Just shows that you don't really need user wavetables as a necessity, or in order to sound good (that's not to say MX won't eventually be able to support user wavetables). Why not first explore what's already in there (and there's a lot, and all the phase distortion modes are months of fun quite literally - they in essence multiply the amount of wavetables that you get with MX)?

Fully agreed.

[EvilDragon]

(they're this kind of would-be-NI, Windows 10 only, always online, stupid installers...)

Uhm, W10 only? What are you even talking about? They have Mac installers as well for all their stuff. And no, you don't need to be always online, you authorize your plugins and can work unplugged no problem.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

Uhm, W10 only? What are you even talking about?

Some people are producing on Windows 7.

[EvilDragon]

Meh. Bygones.

Also I bet the stuff could still somehow be ran on W7. In fact I'll try and install it on my old laptop just to see.

[pdxindy]

(no synth is better for MPE)

Ahem, Equator, Strobe/Cypher...

They are not better for MPE... Vital has fantastic curve shaping for MPE response

[pdxindy]

You have plenty of modulation shaping power in Equator/Strobe/Cypher too... They were literally made with MPE in mind.

I said nothing is better for MPE... those synths are good for MPE too. Vital has incredible nuance and subtlety for MPE expression cause every mod target has its own mod editor where you can add as many points as you want. Basically a full MSEG per target.

[Noumena]

In Bitwig you can put 1-n massive X's in an instrument selector set to round robin (or free robin, as they call it) and do MPE expression mapping. It's brilliant and MX sounds amazing this way. It is irritating that it doesn't have per-note modulation built in... there are a lot of uses for this beyond MPE. But, at least in Bitwig, MPE can be done.

And Vital is pretty good for MPE. I say pretty good because you don't have the attenuation options ahd the curves available there that work as well as the ones in Equator, Cypher (now that the mod bug is fixed) and Bitwig's Grid (<--- the actual best MPE synth imo.)

But ultimately I agree with Dragon: MX just sounds way better than anything else I've got, synth-wise. I'm not sure what it is.

[pdxindy]

And Vital is pretty good for MPE. I say pretty good because you don't have the attenuation options ahd the curves available there that work as well as the ones in Equator, Cypher (now that the mod bug is fixed) and Bitwig's Grid (<--- the actual best MPE synth imo.)

Every mod target in Vital can have a mod curve of any complexity. You can control attenuation better than any synth I have tried.

[pdxindy]

Vital can't touch MX sound quality, period.
Now, please, let's just focus on Massive X here. If you like Vital, fine, but go praise it in its own thread.

Vital can hold its own when used to its strengths... they each have some unique sonic capabilities. For example, MX couldn't do this, or other beautiful vocal sounds like Vital can.
https://dandelionaudio.com/sound/Vital-Vocal-1.mp3

But yes, fine with me to focus from here out on MX... I wont mention Vital again.

[EvilDragon]

I'm sure you could do that in MX but you haven't tried hard enough Maybe try starting with Formant>Tender Men wavetable, play with phase distortion modes, and parallel SVF in BP-BP mode for additional formants...

[pdxindy]

In Bitwig you can put 1-n massive X's in an instrument selector set to round robin (or free robin, as they call it) and do MPE expression mapping. It's brilliant and MX sounds amazing this way. It is irritating that it doesn't have per-note modulation built in... there are a lot of uses for this beyond MPE. But, at least in Bitwig, MPE can be done.

Hmmm... I have had trouble with that. When I put multiple instances of MX into the Instrument Selector, doing pitch slides is problematic. It seems MX does not reset the pitchbend when a note is fully stopped, so the next time you hit a note with that iteration, it jumps from the bent pitch to the default pitch.

Have you noticed that? or maybe you did it in such a way that it doesn't happen? I'd be happy to resolve that.

Multi-instance MPE is more tedious to do with MX than with other non-MPE synths cause Bitwig modulation cannot directly modulate MX parameters, so one has to always go through the MX macro knobs. It adds another layer of complexity and you cannot edit it without the MX gui open.

[digitalboytn]

"Having MPE in mind" doesn't always help if that mind has other issues...