Presonus Studio One 5.2 vs Cubase 11

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Well you are wrong on that. Reaper doesn't have upgrade licenses as far as I'm aware. Once 7.99 moves to 8.0 or whatever for a commercial license (which you should be buying if you make money on making music) its $225.

Well...if we're going to start throwing around the word "wrong" let's be sure to get things right. Reaper doesn't have "upgrades" but each license is good for 2 full versions. So if you buy Reaper today at version 6.x, you are covered all the way through to version 7.x. So version 8 is the first major version you'd have to buy. That's many, many years worth of very frequent releases. Version 4.0 came out in August 2011. Version 6.0 came out in December 2019. So 8+ years with a single license!

And if one isn't purchasing a commercial license, you get all that for $60. The $220 commercial license is for studios/artists pulling in over 20k per year in gross revenue.

[SLiC]

I was wondering how long a thread about 'Presonus Studio One vs Cubase' would take before Reaper was mentioned

Ultimately almost all software is better value if you skip a version or 2 (NI Komplete, V Collection, iZotope, IK Total Studio, Ableton Live, Bitwig etc etc!) but that's just how things seem to be....If you really don't need it, skip it, they are saving 'you' money!

[apoclypse]

Well you are wrong on that. Reaper doesn't have upgrade licenses as far as I'm aware. Once 7.99 moves to 8.0 or whatever for a commercial license (which you should be buying if you make money on making music) its $225.

Well...if we're going to start throwing around the word "wrong" let's be sure to get things right. Reaper doesn't have "upgrades" but each license is good for 2 full versions. So if you buy Reaper today at version 6.x, you are covered all the way through to version 7.x. So version 8 is the first major version you'd have to buy. That's many, many years worth of very frequent releases. Version 4.0 came out in August 2011. Version 6.0 came out in December 2019. So 8+ years with a single license!

And if one isn't purchasing a commercial license, you get all that for $60. The $220 commercial license is for studios/artists pulling in over 20k per year in gross revenue.

Okay. My statement is still correct. I wasn't point the timing of the upgrades I was pointing to the fact that you have to pay $225 to upgrade regardless of how long it take for that upgrade to come out. You can still see people complaining in the Reaper forum that they have to pay $225 to update to 6.x when that came out if they bought 5.x.

If you are a hobbyist then sure pay the $60 bucks, but if you are making music professionally (like I pointed out) and are making money as an artist or studio then you should be paying the $225 price tag. So pointing to the personal license imo is disingenuous at best because if you are professional mixer, producer, even a YouTuber doing Reaper videos you should be hitting 20K easy.

[chk071]

Your argument is that it's expensive and mine is compared to what? Because every other DAWs upgrade is more expensive. $79 imo is too low for the major feature added between major versions, especially when Cubase charges $99 just to go from 10.0 to 10.5. I'm not buying that someone can't put together $149 every 3-4 years.

Couple of wrong things: There are DAW upgrades which are less expensive. Reaper for example. Also, it took a mere 2 years for Presonus to get from Studio One v4 to v5, not 3 or 4 years. And, it's not about being able to put together $149, it's about value. I don't see much value upgrading from the direct predecessor. It seems to make more sense to skip 2 or 3 versions. Which, again, can't be in Presonus' interest.

Anyway.

Well you are wrong on that. Reaper doesn't have upgrade licenses as far as I'm aware. Once 7.99 moves to 8.0 or whatever for a commercial license (which you should be buying if you make money on making music) its $225.

Before 5.x came out Presonus upgrade cadence was 3-4 years. They accelerated that time scale. Even so $149 is not expensive even for a two year upgrade cycle imo. As for what's in Presonus interest or not. Presonus is a hardware company. I'm sure they appreciate the money they make from S1 but it's not their bread and butter. They are just following the industry agreed upon licensing terms as almost every other DAW maker has the same exact licensing terms (upgrade from previous version 1-10, or Ableton 7-10 etc).

For one they know that most users will keep up to date (and I'm sure they have data to prove this) versus skipping versions. Anecdotally I don't know anyone who does that. I've never see anyone skip 3.x and go to 4.x. For one because for the most part there are must have features in every update for most people.

You know, the one thing we seem to be disagreeing about is the value of the upgrades. Back when I started with Studio One (version 2 Producer), Studio One didn't have that pace of development. Now they're firing off paid upgrades almost at the same pace as Steinberg, with a paid upgrade every 2 years, and 1 or 2 free feature upgrades, which I consider in the same way as the one paid upgrade, because, that's what you paid for. To get... loads of new features. Studio One is/was the DAW of my choice because I don't need bloat, and because I disliked the bloat and the legacy features in Cubase. I just don't like how it's developing (not that I can't understand why it's developing like that, with the need to generate money. It seems like everything evolves into a quasi subscription model these days.).

And, if you think I'm some kind of oddball, let it be said that I doubt I'm the only one who thinks so. I know someone in this forum who is still on version 3 of Studio One, and does some great music with it. And, once again, I ask myself who needs all those features? There are people here who even wish there was additionally half of Ableton in Studio One. Well... that's definitely not the way I want it.

The problem with the way I do it sticking to an old version of the DAW) is, that, one day, it simply could stop working, when a new WIndows update maybe breaks things, or something else is happening, and, Presonus will do nothing about it, because it's a discontinued product. Which means that I would have to upgrade, no matter if I want it or not. And, if, one day, they decide they want to go completely Steinberg, and do a paid upgrade every year, the situation will be even worse, with all those discontinued versions on the way.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Okay. My statement is still correct. I wasn't point the timing of the upgrades I was pointing to the fact that you have to pay $225 to upgrade regardless of how long it take for that upgrade to come out. You can still see people complaining in the Reaper forum that they have to pay $225 to update to 6.x when that came out if they bought 5.x.

If you are a hobbyist then sure pay the $60 bucks, but if you are making music professionally (like I pointed out) and are making money as an artist or studio then you should be paying the $225 price tag. So pointing to the personal license imo is disingenuous at best because if you are professional mixer, producer, even a YouTuber doing Reaper videos you should be hitting 20K easy.

If you bought during the 5.x period, you didn't have to pay again to upgrade to 6.x. You're covered until version 7.0. So no. Where is the complaining on the Reaper forum? I'm there daily. Didn't see that.

And talking real-world cost: my $60 Reaper license in 2011 covered all releases up to 2019. And if I had bought a commercial license, that $220, that would've been $220 for 8 years worth of updates. How much did Studio one updates cost over the last 8 years in comparison? Or Cubase?

Comparing that model to Studio One or most DAWs is apples and oranges frankly.

[SLiC]

One day someone will make the perfect DAW and put themselves out of business.

[chk071]

The perfect DAW is an oxymoron.

[apoclypse]

Your argument is that it's expensive and mine is compared to what? Because every other DAWs upgrade is more expensive. $79 imo is too low for the major feature added between major versions, especially when Cubase charges $99 just to go from 10.0 to 10.5. I'm not buying that someone can't put together $149 every 3-4 years.

Couple of wrong things: There are DAW upgrades which are less expensive. Reaper for example. Also, it took a mere 2 years for Presonus to get from Studio One v4 to v5, not 3 or 4 years. And, it's not about being able to put together $149, it's about value. I don't see much value upgrading from the direct predecessor. It seems to make more sense to skip 2 or 3 versions. Which, again, can't be in Presonus' interest.

Anyway.

Well you are wrong on that. Reaper doesn't have upgrade licenses as far as I'm aware. Once 7.99 moves to 8.0 or whatever for a commercial license (which you should be buying if you make money on making music) its $225.

Before 5.x came out Presonus upgrade cadence was 3-4 years. They accelerated that time scale. Even so $149 is not expensive even for a two year upgrade cycle imo. As for what's in Presonus interest or not. Presonus is a hardware company. I'm sure they appreciate the money they make from S1 but it's not their bread and butter. They are just following the industry agreed upon licensing terms as almost every other DAW maker has the same exact licensing terms (upgrade from previous version 1-10, or Ableton 7-10 etc).

For one they know that most users will keep up to date (and I'm sure they have data to prove this) versus skipping versions. Anecdotally I don't know anyone who does that. I've never see anyone skip 3.x and go to 4.x. For one because for the most part there are must have features in every update for most people.

You know, the one thing we seem to be disagreeing about is the value of the upgrades. Back when I started with Studio One (version 2 Producer), Studio One didn't have that pace of development. Now they're firing off paid upgrades almost at the same pace as Steinberg, with a paid upgrade every 2 years, and 1 or 2 free feature upgrades, which I consider in the same way as the one paid upgrade, because, that's what you paid for. To get... loads of new features. Studio One is/was the DAW of my choice because I don't need bloat, and because I disliked the bloat and the legacy features in Cubase. I just don't like how it's developing (not that I can't understand why it's developing like that, with the need to generate money. It seems like everything evolves into a quasi subscription model these days.).

And, if you think I'm some kind of oddball, let it be said that I doubt I'm the only one who thinks so. I know someone in this forum who is still on version 3 of Studio One, and does some great music with it. And, once again, I ask myself who needs all those features? There are people here who even wish there was additionally half of Ableton in Studio One. Well... that's definitely not the way I want it.

The problem with the way I do it sticking to an old version of the DAW) is, that, one day, it simply could stop working, when a new WIndows update maybe breaks things, or something else is happening, and, Presonus will do nothing about it, because it's a discontinued product. Which means that I would have to upgrade, no matter if I want it or not. And, if, one day, they decide they want to go completely Steinberg, and do a paid upgrade every year, the situation will be even worse, with all those discontinued versions on the way.

Which is fine. I'm not saying you should upgrade or that you need to be on the latest version. Like you said I'm just specifically disagreeing with you that the upgrade is expensive. Even at the faster upgrade cadence compared to every other DAW in the market the price itself is pretty darn good. Now If it were $149 every year (like Bitwig) that would be pretty expensive over time and I can see that being an issue. Every 2-3 years, not so much.

I agree with you on bloat. The interface is definitely getting a bit busy for my liking. I always liked how clean S1 was and how I use almost every feature. Now it's starting to feel a little bit like Logic where half the features get lost because you forget they are even there. How many times have I seen a feature request in Logic only for someone to chime in that its already there. I don't want the same thing to happen in S1 (though its already happening).

[apoclypse]

Okay. My statement is still correct. I wasn't point the timing of the upgrades I was pointing to the fact that you have to pay $225 to upgrade regardless of how long it take for that upgrade to come out. You can still see people complaining in the Reaper forum that they have to pay $225 to update to 6.x when that came out if they bought 5.x.

If you are a hobbyist then sure pay the $60 bucks, but if you are making music professionally (like I pointed out) and are making money as an artist or studio then you should be paying the $225 price tag. So pointing to the personal license imo is disingenuous at best because if you are professional mixer, producer, even a YouTuber doing Reaper videos you should be hitting 20K easy.

If you bought during the 5.x period, you didn't have to pay again to upgrade to 6.x. You're covered until version 7.0. So no. Where is the complaining on the Reaper forum? I'm there daily. Didn't see that.

And talking real-world cost: my $60 Reaper license in 2011 covered all releases up to 2019. And if I had bought a commercial license, that $220, that would've been $220 for 8 years worth of updates. How much did Studio one updates cost over the last 8 years in comparison? Or Cubase?

Comparing that model to Studio One or most DAWs is apples and oranges frankly.

I put in the wrong version but okay https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=166353.

You are completely missing my point. I'm saying even $149 for every 3-4 years or now 2-3 years the cost of Studio one compared to most (I have to reiterate this since it seems Reaper user need reading comprehension), most, commercial DAWs out there their price is lower.

Whether Reaper is a better value or not is not the point. The same argument can be said for Logic which hasn't had a paid upgrade since 2013 and you only have to pay $199.

[pbognar]

Cubase features I would miss if I went with Studio One are:

- MIDI live input transform which can obey the chord track
- Chord pads and chord circle of fifths and proximity assistant
- MIDI effects, including Arpache SX

The old saying is that DAWs are pretty much equal, the difference being the steps needed to accomplish what you want to do. I don't know if there is a way to accomplish what I listed above in Studio One.

Btw - Cubase does have very good Melodyne integration and also comes with a version of Spectral Layers which can separate vocals from an audio item.

All said, Studio One has the edge when it comes to ease of use, the UI and workflow. Maybe it would be worth using both - start off composing in Cubase and finish off in Studio One.

[chk071]

Studio One actually has a couple of MIDI FX, if you will. https://s1manual.presonus.com/Content/B ... ote_FX.htm

[pbognar]

Studio One actually has a couple of MIDI FX, if you will. https://s1manual.presonus.com/Content/B ... ote_FX.htm

Cool - I must have misinterpreted a feature request.

[xbitz]

just don't forget to set the shortcuts to Cubase one then ready to go
https://blog.presonus.com/index.php/201 ... tudio-one/

[kelldammit]

However, there will be an initial learning curve and there is uncertainty how all my 3rd party vsts will reliably work with Studio One?

Has anyone on here switched from Cubase to Studio One? What other pro's/con's are there with the latest versions of these DAW's? What would you recommend?

In terms of plugins, i've had better luck with studio one than cubase compatibility-wise. They're both pretty good, though. I also like being able to sidechain vst2 plugs in s1 without having to resort to a workaround.
The learning curve shouldn't be too hideous...you'll likely be able to get rolling pretty quickly with the basics. Some of the deeper features may not be as immediately obvious, but there's less menu diving to discover them. You should be able to do a 30 day trial and see if you get on with it.

Good luck!
kell

[jens]

So if you buy Reaper today at version 6.x, you are covered all the way through to version 7.x. So version 8 is the first major version you'd have to buy. That's many, many years worth of very frequent releases. Version 4.0 came out in August 2011. Version 6.0 came out in December 2019. So 8+ years with a single license!

Yeah, but let's be honest: typically there's not a lot of meat during all that time and with all these updates.

When I still read through most every new changelog (really can't be bothered anymore) I rarely had much of an idea what most of the entries actually meant. It could as well have been Chinese for the bulk of ithttps://www.landoleet.org/whatsnew6.txt

Here's the last 15 months of Reaper development:

https://www.landoleet.org/whatsnew6.txt