KVR Audio

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:11 pm

Guess it's not a problem if you have the plugin centered on your screen and not a too big zoom level so that it takes up most of the screen. But that's not how I usually work, so I'm hitting those snags. Either way, a well thought-out UX shouldn't have those snags in the first place.

Angus_FX · Post by **Angus_FX** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:49 pm

So do you agree that if you're hiding the cursor, it should just be pinned and work on accumulated deltas, rather than what it's doing now? Because frankly all those roadblocks when tweaking certain knobs really make for a very unsatisfactory UX.

I agree in principle, but I'm wary that might screw with Apple's cursor ballistics (less so on Windows which doesn't implement mouse acceleration in the same way). So it's not quite as simple as "pin it and forget about the rest". And requires a different mode and preference for trackpad/Wacom users.

For a while I had some custom inertia/accel behaviour on the knobs, but it turns out that getting that to play nicely across all possible systems in a way that users feel is "right" is _way_ harder than you'd think. Got it to feel great on a few systems but others would complain that it was unusable (depending on screen resolution, mouse type, their own sensitivity/acceleration settings and probably a bunch of other factors). So now it just uses the system behaviour which on macOS is actually pretty refined - the acceleration is such that a quick "flick" (no more than 20% of screen Y-rez) is enough to move a control from min to max if you do so quickly, but you can still get really nice fine control with slow movements. I'd personally like it to have a bit more weight/inertia than it does, but it's not worth the hassle.. then again, Apple probably have five or six engineers working on this one feature full-time.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:01 pm

Yep, I completely know what you're talking about. I'm personally not a fan when knobs in plugins have accelleration on them. The fact that getting that to work nicely cross-platform on any machine is another thing that plays against that sort of feature IMO.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:54 pm

EvilDragon wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:01 pm Yep, I completely know what you're talking about. I'm personally not a fan when knobs in plugins have accelleration on them. The fact that getting that to work nicely cross-platform on any machine is another thing that plays against that sort of feature IMO.

Bitwig have all sorts of features for touch screen support on Windows and Linux, it's not a feature of Mac OS. I'm not upset that Bitwig users get a feature specific to an OS that takes development resources and don't work like I would want on the one I use.

Noumena · Post by **Noumena** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:16 pm

very irate comment deleted. done with fxp after waiting too long for bugs to be fixed properly and being talked down to by developers who consistently advocate against their customers.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:23 pm

Noumena wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:16 pm very irate comment deleted. done with fxp after waiting too long for bugs to be fixed properly and being talked down to by developers who consistently advocate against their customers.

It's entirely your right to do what you want. Personally I've always appreciated the transparency of FXPansion, even if sometimes I'm not happy with their replies to peoples questions.

The bug where modulation could disappear was a PITA but it was no showstopper. Same with the bugs we're discussing here. Cypher 2 is pretty bold in it's original feature set, I'm not surprised some things take time to iron out.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:07 am

machinesworking wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:23 pm Cypher 2 is pretty bold in it's original feature set,

Yup. It's one of the most complete analog-modelling synths there is, since it's not an emulation of any specific analogue synth, but an amalgamation of what analogue synthesis has to offer. The sound, the feature set, just perfect, at least for me. In my experience it can sound as powerful as an Oberheim OBXa, as iconic as a Minimoog Model D and as quirky as a Korg mini700. Such immense range of sounds....

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:43 am

himalaya wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:07 am
machinesworking wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:23 pm Cypher 2 is pretty bold in it's original feature set,
Yup. It's one of the most complete analog-modelling synths there is, since it's not an emulation of any specific analogue synth, but an amalgamation of what analogue synthesis has to offer. The sound, the feature set, just perfect, at least for me. In my experience it can sound as powerful as an Oberheim OBXa, as iconic as a Minimoog Model D and as quirky as a Korg mini700. Such immense range of sounds....

The thing I find supremely easy to replicate on it oddly enough is string machines, plus more modern era analog and digital subtractive synths. Older analog I think Diva and certain Arturia synths nail a bit better. In hardware it reminds me of the Poly Evolver I had before the mortgage crisis more than a Minimoog. Probably because of the feature set. MPE wise it's dangerous.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:34 am

Yes, Cypher2 can do some lush string machines. If I remember well, I've included lots of string machine presets in the factory set. There is a preset that aims to emulate my vintage Arp Solina. It's not quiet there since the Cypher2 chorus doesn't quiet get 'that' Solina sound, but overall, for string machine lushness, Cypher2 can do some amazing sounds. Which is further a testament to how flexible it is, on one end of the spectrum it can do hard-as-nails FM sounds, on the other slush string machine washes.

When I had the vintage Model D here in my studio, I did a direct 1-1 patch comparison. Cypher was able to get me the sound I dialled in on the Minimoog really, really close. The only difference was in the key-tracking and the envelope response. The Mini has a specific 'shape' that was difficult to get right in Cypher, but then again, Cypher is not an emulation of the Mini, so I wasn't surprised. But, maybe there is a way to 're-shape' the basic envelope with math. I haven't tried it.

I think when it comes to vintage synth emulations, people ought to try some of the per-voice random mod tricks. This can do some of the tricks that Diva does in the Trimmers page. Although, the Diva Trimmers page is so easy to use. Instant gorgeousness.

But the real fun begins once we forget about trying to emulate anything specific and approach Cypher2 as a big 'modular' synth. Dual-hard sync, Dual Ring mod, or was it triple, can't remember, analogue-style FM, waveshapers, math, etc...this thing is a real sound laboratory.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:06 am

himalaya wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:34 am But the real fun begins once we forget about trying to emulate anything specific and approach Cypher2 as a big 'modular' synth. Dual-hard sync, Dual Ring mod, or was it triple, can't remember, analogue-style FM, waveshapers, math, etc...this thing is a real sound laboratory.

Yeah this, it's dead easy to get a solid clean sound, run modulation on it via MPE controllers like the Block or Linnstrument and have something that morphs from beauty to nightmare.

revvy · Post by **revvy** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:07 am

@Angus_FX

Respectfully, any news?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=562261

Angus_FX · Post by **Angus_FX** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:02 pm

Last maintenance update to Geist2 was within a year or so. It's being looked at, but the next one may be a while off - am not able to say more than that at the moment, sorry.

revvy · Post by **revvy** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:43 pm

Ok thanks Angus

MitchK1989 · Post by **MitchK1989** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:38 pm

the demo seems completely broken. It downloaded 2.4.something (only in edge after refusing to download anything at all in chrome) only to then prompt me to log into license manager to update it which required making an account just to download and not run a new installer which then also didn't know where my VST folder was even though it was provided through a "license manager" for an already installed product just so I can then load it in my host and everything just says "null" and won't make any audio whether I try to tweak manually or load presets.

Spent like 15 minutes messing with stuff just to not even produce any sound - definitely not an experience that I'm gonna drop 200 USD based on.

ehdyn · Post by **ehdyn** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:17 pm

EvilDragon wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:47 pm I also have a weird issue with the mouse, where I cannot seem to turn the knob fully in one mouse drag movement - it just stops dead randomly and forces me to click and drag again. What the hell?

I love this synth for it's sound and its capabilities but I've been reporting this bug for at least two years and I guess I've just been ignored.

Would've been nice to know just move it away from edges of the screen!

I don't like all this fiddly knob behavior - it's not helpful for people who do a lot of tweaking..
I shouldn't have to constantly fight the damn knobs to do what I want.

FXpansion releases Cypher2