Studio One 5 Available Now (5.3 Out June 29th, 2021)

[BONES]

Here's an interesting turn of events. My bandmate is still working in Cubase but we decided last year that we would use Studio One live, as there is no way Cubase could manage it. So last night we had our first rehearsal in almost 4 years. We basically just set everything up that we'll want to use on stage and then I went through all the songs I have ported across to S1. He seemed really happy last night with where things were at, given that I have had to find replacements for all the Orion-only stuff that we used extensively on our older albums.

This morning he sent me an email, asking me to send him the song files we went through last night, so he can see "how you got some of those big sounds etc..." because he seems to think I am a lot smarter than I really am. He's in for a shock when he sees that there are almost no effects on anything and it's all down to how good the software is. And whilst the plugins we use these days are incredible, I think the biggest part of that is Studio One, not because it sounds better than Cubase but because it gets out of your way and allows you to concentrate on the music you're trying to make. No, it's not as good in that respect as Orion but it's a whole lot better than I could have hoped for when we started looking for a replacement in 2018.

[jkez]

Oh this is not good! Although I don't use sidechain but I might be in the future in case of heavy low end is going on in the mix.

Yeah in electronic stuff sidechain is much more common in use. One of their employees was nice and posted a workaround on one of the groups on FB for this issue(with additional bussing involved that makes too much mess if you have many busses so its unfortunately not a viable solution) and many users asked what actually sidechain is- so I dont think many of their users are that advanced to even notice such issues.

I don't have clients or partners, so I have more freedom than you switching back and forth. Currnetly, I have two projects (many more actually, but I'm trying to focus on only two), one in Bitwig and one in Live. I really feel happy with the two when I use them, so I'm trying not to choose between them for now!

No need to- they compliment each other nicely- i find the mixer and audio editing much better in Bitwig. The native effects and devices are much better in Ableton.
You can pair them via Link to run in sync.

Anyway, I wrote a feature request to Bitwig Support (viewing midi files from the browsers by free routing the signals to any instrument). They have answered me politely but didn't promise anything or denying anything, so there is a hope. So maybe this is will be the deciding factor between Bitwig and Live for me.

Yes they are usually very fast to answer. I reported a bug some time ago with pitchbend automation not importing with MIDI clips from other software (other midi CC did) and I got an answer its not implemented yet- but in the next two or three small updates it was added as a feature. So they may add it eventually.

Yes, it depends on how you use it really. I'm was considering S1 or Reaper for mixing stage, but recently I have purchased nice compressor/EQ/Limiter from 2nd hand market (done by TDR and then I complete the package with another EQ and Compressor from them), and those tools can be used in any DAW, so I might not need Reaper or S1 for mixing really. The only thing is I need to know which one of the four have the best PDC, Bitwig, Live, S1 or Reaper!

Yes I alo have the TDR stuff and use it all the time- the limiter is awesome.
I had the same worries but i found out I dont need any additional software to mix- works very nicely in Live and BW once you get used to it.

[EnGee]

No need to- they compliment each other nicely- i find the mixer and audio editing much better in Bitwig. The native effects and devices are much better in Ableton.
You can pair them via Link to run in sync.

Yes, I always felt the devices are better in Live. Still, the synths in Bitwig (the Grid, Phase and Polymore) are a big step up from old ones. Still I prefer Operator more than FM4, but I'm covered with FM synthesis (FM8, DX7 V and FMX in MODX), so I don't mind sacrificing Operator.

Oh! Do you mean linking Bitwig and Live?! I have never thought of this! In the past I used ReWire in Live with Reason (or Reaper lately), but now that ReWire is dead, I will read about the Link feature! Thanks

Yes I alo have the TDR stuff and use it all the time- the limiter is awesome.
I had the same worries but i found out I dont need any additional software to mix- works very nicely in Live and BW once you get used to it.

I have been looking for 3rd party dynamic effects for a long time. My first thought is to use Ableton's ones, but because I wasn't sure of which DAW will be my main one (still not 100%!!), so I decided to buy the most urgent one, and that is a good Limiter. I read here and there, then I came across some articles in the net about aliasing and some effects that use oversampling to not introduce a noticeable aliasing, so I read about TDR plugs.

I used the free compressor on drums (to glue some of it), but after spending and learning it, I could come with a very good result. The drums sounded exactly how I wanted! So, I decided to buy all the package.


Yes, the limiter is an outstanding one, but it is much more than a limiter of course. I'm still learning it as it has a learning curve. I need to watch Dan Worrall's intro more than once for sure!

[jkez]

Oh! Do you mean linking Bitwig and Live?! I have never thought of this! In the past I used ReWire in Live with Reason (or Reaper lately), but now that ReWire is dead, I will read about the Link feature! Thanks

Yes. But it will work more for live performance stuff it actually syncs the tempo of all apps connected to it via the same local network. Unfortunatelly it doesnt do audio connections like Rewire did. but im sure they will add something in time. You can sync apps on an ipad and route the audio with a cable into your computers soundcard a resample it in ableton.

Yes, the limiter is an outstanding one, but it is much more than a limiter of course. I'm still learning it as it has a learning curve. I need to watch Dan Worrall's intro more than once for sure!

I like it because it has different modules which you can tur on and off and also allow to gradually process audio signal with each module in small db (1-2 db usually )increments- I get much cleaner result when doing louder masters.

[jkez]

If anyone else has the sidechain PDC with group tracks problem in S1 5.1 and higher there is another temporary solution- you can put a Pipeline device on the Bus track and it will correct the latency- the only downfall is the channel meter doesnt work, but the one in Pipeline does. Hopefully they fix this soon.

[oneway]

Midi gets recorded ahead of time for certain amount of ms. Between 10 and 16ms. So, if you play exactly on time it will come back as rushed.

Of course I can move files back in time but why should I second guess S1's timing. It might not even be the same every day for what I know.

This began after introduction of safety buffers or whatever. Can't be really turned off.

K

Interesting. I’ve seen people mention this before and I’ve tested it with them and don’t have that issue. I wonder if it’s like the playback jitter issues (similar amount, ~15ms) that only show up when monitoring instruments on Mac in > 256 sample buffers in that it depends on settings/OS combinations.

Issues like that are always the most annoying to get fixed.

[AdvancedFollower]

Yes unfortunatelly it is. In v5.1 theyve also broken sidechain PDC compensation. If you route sidechained signals to a bus and use any latency inducing plugin the signal doesnt get compensated.(but you can use it as a flam generator nonetheles)

Have they confirmed this issue now? Last I heard, PreSonus employees were insisting that it's not an issue with 5.1/5.2, and that it has always been like that.

I just tried it again, and indeed if you put any latency-inducing plugin after a side-chained compressor (or other plugin) on a bus, PDC doesn't work properly.

[oneway]

Yes unfortunatelly it is. In v5.1 theyve also broken sidechain PDC compensation. If you route sidechained signals to a bus and use any latency inducing plugin the signal doesnt get compensated.(but you can use it as a flam generator nonetheles)

Have they confirmed this issue now? Last I heard, PreSonus employees were insisting that it's not an issue with 5.1/5.2, and that it has always been like that.

I just tried it again, and indeed if you put any latency-inducing plugin after a side-chained compressor (or other plugin) on a bus, PDC doesn't work properly.

Yes, they are aware of it. I believe they said so in a live stream and a few times in various forums. I have a hunch that it may have been written off at first because it's very similar to another issue that is a much less consequential use case and has been present for longer. It probably took a little time to realize that people were talking about the issue that came up in 5.1 and not the older issue that might have been lower priority.

[AdvancedFollower]

Yeah I went through a few threads and there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the issue. Sidechaining in itself is a pretty advanced subject, not fully understood by many (myself included), but it's a pretty fundamental feature in a DAW. If the timing is off, it can have serious consequences for your mix - everything from a "pumping" sidechain rhythm effect feeling sloppy and off, to transients getting buried in the mix because the ducking is out of time with the sidechain signal. Even an offset of a few ms can make it much harder to dial in precis attack/release settings (and those settings will of course change again when/if PreSonus fixes the bug).

[oneway]

Yes, plus all DAWs come with some caveats/limitations in sidechaining. Especially so for dual buffer DAWs. I contacted Ableton about a (less common/noticeable) issue with sidechaining somewhere during 10 and it took a lot of tickets for them to understand that what I was talking about was a new problem and not the usual limitations. Sometimes you have to remember Support are not mixers, which can really bite sometimes.

[BONES]

I have been looking for 3rd party dynamic effects for a long time. My first thought is to use Ableton's ones, but because I wasn't sure of which DAW will be my main one (still not 100%!!), so I decided to buy the most urgent one, and that is a good Limiter. I read here and there, then I came across some articles in the net about aliasing and some effects that use oversampling to not introduce a noticeable aliasing, so I read about TDR plugs.

I can't see how a limiter would introduce any aliasing. It's only changing amplitude, which it can do on a discrete, per-sample basis. Unless maybe it's something that is trying to mimic some ancient piece of krap hardware and is screwing with the sound, in which case it's not a limiter you'd want to be using. A good limiter is one that doesn't colour the sound at all, it just does what it is meant to do. And if it's not colouring the sound, it's not going to introduce any aliasing.

[EnGee]

Yes, I also know that peak limiter just cut harmonics above the limit. Maybe because in doing so, also introduce aliasing some way? No idea.

Also, it might be because some limiters are also functioning as maximizer and have other mastering tools, so they function together (Compressor, cliper, ... etc).

I'm not audio engineer, but I read somewhere that all plugins introduce aliasing. There is also oversampling in fabfilter limiter, so why they put it if a limiter doesn't introduce aliasing? Someone more knowledgeable might answer you, or get your hands dirty and search the net.

As far as I know, TDR plugins don't emulate anything vintage. They are just digital tools.

[jkez]

Yes, I also know that peak limiter just cut harmonics above the limit. Maybe because in doing so, also introduce aliasing some way? No idea.

Also, it might be because some limiters are also functioning as maximizer and have other mastering tools, so they function together (Compressor, cliper, ... etc).

I'm not audio engineer, but I read somewhere that all plugins introduce aliasing. There is also oversampling in fabfilter limiter, so why they put it if a limiter doesn't introduce aliasing? Someone more knowledgeable might answer you, or get your hands dirty and search the net.

As far as I know, TDR plugins don't emulate anything vintage. They are just digital tools.

Actually it can introduce aliasing. Limiter cuts peaks of audio signal above the ceiling you set. with fast short peaks it has to react quite fast to changes(depends on the att, sus and lookahead settings). This is where you can get that degraded sound- youll hear it as distortion in most sever cases. Stuff that adds more harmonic content si more prone to this. It usually starts to show when using alot of limiting.
The first solution is oversampling- with TDL limiter you have quality option(eco, precise, insane, low latency) in the top right corner to set this.
The second is true sample peak metering option- it detects intersample peaks that can occur that an ordinary meter can miss- this was a real problem when limiting and rendering for mp3. Most of the better limiters on the marekt have this option (even Studio ones native limiter has it)

[EnGee]

Thank you for the info jkez

I think it is time for me to read all those manuals starting with the TDR (or TDL) Limiter although Dan Worrall has explained it well

[Kang]

2 questions for Studio One users (I've been messing around with Prime).

Can you stop during a recording so that it doesn't save the clips i.e. 'abort recording'?

Can you have it so an automation line shows over the track, but the clips don't get greyed out?