Self - indulgence When Making Music

[vurt]

Yea but in a world where instruments have been built to drone, there is a place for it
Whether some people like it or agree that it's this and that

but seriously...

of course, it's not like ive ever worried what others think, sometimes i really do just enjoy throwing switches, tweaking with no goals and seeing what happens!
and ive shared such things!!!

and regarding "the insane" in this world, maybe they are the ones we should listen to
but even they do have their audience, the shaggs for example, aren't just some gigglefest, they do have many "serious musician" fans, which in turn is how the rest of us heard of them.
their naive songs, are ocassionally refreshing, as they don't have that sense of ego many bands do, even in recordings
and, they and others in the same arena, do have something to tell us
is art or music an inherent part of us as humans? (not skills, but the yearn to create)
if someone gets joy from creating something, isn't that enough of a reason for them to do it, even now, with the internet, publish it? why does it need to conform to "our" standard?
no one forces us to listen to anything (supermarket radio and such obviously...) we can all find more than enough pieces we do like to fill a couple of lifetimes

and who knows, one day, one of them/us may do something, even just one, that inspires further, and that's a conversation...

[vurt]

looks more like an... endurance problem

lotta that going around. 30-second videos and such
whoop! there it is

i hope i was joking tbh, it's been a while...

[jancivil]

FTR I am not giggling at or amused by the Shaggs.
Frank Zappa made some kind of statement about liking it. It's ideological, an ideological 'f**k alla y'all' methinks.

Don Vliet had some pretty f**ked-up ideas about music (IMO) but he got very dedicated and serious people to pull it all together, so even the musical (potential) gibberish is very organized. I suppose the very thing of a pop song is restrictive to the extent of 'organization' in sensu stricto but inability to keep time is not an advancement in drumming (re: Shaggs).

[jancivil]

if someone gets joy from creating something, isn't that enough of a reason for them to do it, even now, with the internet, publish it?

I did mention a couple of things which other than a certain kind of internet forum wouldn't be getting any traction at all, that's just an observation. I can't explain, nor would I be bothered to, why there was a Shaggs record printed.

I am not stopping anyone, nor saying things should be stopped. I was responsive to the topic and certain things said.

Vliet, btw, had some very compelling notions or ideas in music IMO. If you know from the modi operandi making Trout Mask Replica, tho...

[vurt]

if someone gets joy from creating something, isn't that enough of a reason for them to do it, even now, with the internet, publish it?

I did mention a couple of things which other than a certain kind of internet forum wouldn't be getting any traction at all, that's just an observation. I can't explain, nor would I be bothered to, why there was a Shaggs record printed.

why does it need to conform to "our" standard?

Why are you talking like I'm policing something? It's not my business.

my apologies, that wasn't my intent at all.
i did follow on from a couple of your comments, but it was more of a general reply, also to melo, regards the bit about whether people like it or agree it's this or that. and ariston, suggesting the language bit.

more of a royal we, than pointing fingers at anybody here doing the policing

sorry

[vurt]

no, i just meant, many people, do hear it and think it's a piss take.

yeah, don vilet was lucky enough to find someone like zappa who could help him put that all together. otherwise, he may well have been one of those outsiders for ever.

[vurt]

those posts are backwards?
the last was a reply to your ftr??.

[jancivil]

re Vliet, Trout Mask Replica was largely John French organizing the compositions. Beefheart had some incredibly naive ideas, very rudimentary little bits but he wanted it to come across as though he was Stravinsky, so Drumbo and the guitar players were very busy doing a very insane gig for essentially no money. Yeah, that's pretty lucky. It's not wholly unlike the Shaggs' record, except it was all deliberate as f**k.

I personally like some of the things but it's because of the blues element gone wrong more than the complexity of Trout Mask. Sometimes knowing what it is takes that kind of turn. I know very serious people who take it very seriously. It's worth studying, though.

[melomood]

I feel so middle of the road when discussing the length

[jancivil]

those posts are backwards?
the last was a reply to your ftr??.

I was able to really f**k with time this time.
which is exhausting really


no, I didn't mean insane in any figurative sense. There was at least one character who was proudly insane, who is required to take very heavy medication for it so people do not die at his hands.

[vurt]

re Vliet, Trout Mask Replica was largely John French organizing the compositions. Beefheart had some incredibly naive ideas, very rudimentary little bits but he wanted it to come across as though he was Stravinsky, so Drumbo and the guitar players were very busy doing a very insane gig for essentially no money. Yeah, that's pretty lucky. It's not wholly unlike the Shaggs' record, except it was all deliberate as f**k.

I personally like some of the things but it's because of the blues element gone wrong more than the complexity of Trout Mask. Sometimes knowing what it is takes that kind of turn. I know very serious people who take it very seriously. It's worth studying, though.

yep, ive read a few bits regarding a few beefheart recordings. there was a book i read at college, had interviews with several of the magic band, later stuff but very enlightening, the few bits ive read from don himself, give less away regards the process, other than as you say, his thinking he was a master composer!
a lot of how it worked, reminded me of reading about joe meek, how getting a tone deaf and unable to keep time or read or write music, composers pieces to record.
musicians translating the language of non musicians

im pretty sure there's a chapter on trout mask replica in songs in the key of z, which also has the shaggs and many more "outsider" artists.
worth a read if you have a library nearby post pandemic

[pekbro]

Yeah I don't care what folks think about my music, and that's a good thing since it often is ignored
and probably sucks anyway. lol

[vurt]

those posts are backwards?
the last was a reply to your ftr??.

I was able to really f**k with time this time.
which is exhausting really


no, I didn't mean insane in any figurative sense. There was at least one character who was proudly insane, who is required to take very heavy medication for it so people do not die at his hands.

saucy saucy!

really no idea what happened with the posts.

[jancivil]

There is a Canadian composer called Samuel Andreyev who has some truly extensive interviews with all of those guys but the meat of the story is the John French discussions. on Youtube

anyway

[vurt]

Yeah I don't care what folks think about my music, and that's a good thing since it often is ignored
and probably sucks anyway. lol

doesn't suck
what ive heard anyway.
maybe the stuff i ignore does...