KVR Audio

Frankie.T · Post by **Frankie.T** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:16 am

Hi, i noticed waves plugin instead to load directly a plugin it load a waveshell 12.7.
My question is: If i save a project with this waveshell version and in the future i will have a 12.8 or 13,14 etc, when in the future i will load the older project (made with an older version of the currently installed) does it load? it will hold the same settings? Because my concern is my daw will looking for a 12.7 that isn't anymore on my pc because i have a newer version.
Anyone do have experience with this case scenario?

Thank You

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:09 am

That is of course no problem - just imagine for a moment it was - nobody would use them, and least of all professional recording studiis.

Your host should recognize it as a shell, not a normal plugin - there's a few of those around.
In the case of Waves, if you use Waves for a couple of years and buy a new one now and then chances are you'll have a number of these shells in your plugins folder as you may have one for these couple of V12 plugins, another one or two for other mire recently Updated V12 plugins, the same with V13, then V14, yadda yadda (unless you WUP, that is, which most likely will just be a waste of money).

Other companies (e.g. Hofa, Black Rooster Audio, Presonus) that use shells have a different approach and always use just a single shell that gets updated.

All a bit complicated but basically nothing that should cocearn you.

jinotsuh · Post by **jinotsuh** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:30 am

shhhhhhh, what's that I can hear coming? . . . wont be long, it's on it's way.

roman.i · Post by **roman.i** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:37 am

I love Waves.

Frankie.T · Post by **Frankie.T** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:42 am

jens wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:09 am That is of course no problem - just imagine for a moment it was - nobody would use them, and least of all professional recording studiis.

Your host should recognize it as a shell, not a normal plugin - there's a few of those around.
In the case of Waves, if you use Waves for a couple of years and buy a new one now and then chances are you'll have a number of these shells in your plugins folder as you may have one for these couple of V12 plugins, another one or two for other mire recently Updated V12 plugins, the same with V13, then V14, yadda yadda (unless you WUP, that is, which most likely will just be a waste of money).

Other companies (e.g. Hofa, Black Rooster Audio, Presonus) that use shells have a different approach and always use just a single shell that gets updated.

All a bit complicated but basically nothing that should cocearn you.

Thank you for your detailed answer.
What is WUP?

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:17 am

I believe, different versions aside, the reason why Waves uses several shells is that their plugins aren’t all updated at once, they have way too many to do that. So multiple shells allows them to do things in “batches” rather than wait forever for all of them to be tackled.

Regardless of that Waves plugins have a HUGE rep amongst the pros. For one, they were early on the scene some 25 years or so, but for another it’s because those 25 year old projects will still open reliably to this day. There’s many devs that don’t do that, often introducing another version of the plugin rather than updating/upgrading what they already have. That poses a problem when the older versions no longer open on your system because it’s not supported.

So this shell approach provides them a simple, faster way of keeping their plugins maintained, the downside is that tends to happen in batches. Then there is WUP. Not always needed, but maintenance never comes for free and it’s cost that needs to be occasionally paid to keep these things working so you can STILL open those older projects. It’s just not a “fun” cost as it doesn’t come with new features, but it makes them reliable.

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:37 pm

Frankie.T wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:42 am What is WUP?

Have a look here:

https://www.waves.com/support/waves-update-plan

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:43 pm

simon.a.billington wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:17 am I believe, different versions aside, the reason why Waves uses several shells is that their plugins aren’t all updated at once, they have way too many to do that. So multiple shells allows them to do things in “batches” rather than wait forever for all of them to be tackled.

Yes, that is what I was referring to in my post.

Then there is WUP. Not always needed, but maintenance never comes for free and it’s cost that needs to be occasionally paid to keep these things working so you can STILL open those older projects. It’s just not a “fun” cost as it doesn’t come with new features, but it makes them reliable.

My oldest plugins are V9 with their coverage having expired in 2016. I never WUPed once so far.

I have a brand-new laptop where I installed them all (spread over 10 different shells (V9-V12)) with not much of a problem (can't say none as that woud be a lie).

But I am on Windows - it might be another story if I was on a Mac - but then I'd deserve no better

Frankie.T · Post by **Frankie.T** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:21 pm

So if my understanding is correct, if i do not upgrade my plugins to a newer shell there will be no issue, but is this true also for minor update that could be free like from 12.7 to 12.8? Or if i upgrade to .8 i will screw up my older project?

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:14 pm

I have projects made with v9 which happily open in v12.

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:07 pm

Frankie.T wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:21 pm So if my understanding is correct, if i do not upgrade my plugins to a newer shell there will be no issue, but is this true also for minor update that could be free like from 12.7 to 12.8? Or if i upgrade to .8 i will screw up my older project?

No, you got it wrong actually - NOTHING should cause any issues, upgrading or not. The thing is just that full version updates require coverage and free coverage only last one year (from the day of purchase on). So after coverage has expired you can't update to the next full version unless you pay for it - but normally there's no need to. However if you decide to part with your money that way after all, it shouldn't cause issues either.

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:08 pm

Googly Smythe wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:14 pm I have projects made with v9 which happily open in v12.

Exactly. Because the shell handles this, the host doesn't even notice that something has changed.

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:06 am

jens wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:09 am That is of course no problem - just imagine for a moment it was - nobody would use them, and least of all professional recording studiis.

Believe it or not, this is exactly what happened. Waves have only recently solved the issue by including "version fix" utilities inside Waves Central. Before that, updating to the new generation version broke your old DAW projects sessions, ie: "ERROR - PLUGIN NOT FOUND Waveshell 9.321321321312".

It sucked so bad.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:23 pm

You can manage newer versions in Central too, but nothing prior to v10. This is handy as one of the most common instability issues was due to people having several version of the same plugin installed, that causes conflicts with the system. At least now you have Central to "watchdog" that for you.

At least, I'm pretty sure thats how version management works.

Question on waves shell updates