Unfiltered Audio Lion

[Halma]

Does anybody else encounter some nasty "clicking" when using LP12 ( and some other LP Filters except the MS LP) modulated by an envelope with no attack (even if Amp set to lower values than 100)? Sounds a little bit like a dc offset to my ears - like an overshoot. And if I switch the Envelope from Mono to Poly it somehow sounds different to my ears as well ...

I am on Win10, latest Reaper, latest VST version

[ElVincente]

Is there a way to use poly after-touch with Lion ?

good question, i think not. in MPE mode, of course it works.

but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range.

it seems that LION only reacts to 'channel pressure' and not to 'polyphonic key pressure' (midi spec names). but normally, even developers, call it by other names, the first; aftertouch, second most of the times: poly-aftertouch.

sorry for the not direct answer;

i should check it, but no. poly aftertouch is special midi message, and LION seems only to react to normal aftertouch.

correct me if i am wrong, it could be a feature recquest. easily implemented? in way think. it isn't rocket science to implement it, because LION can do MPE..

Thanks for the answer. To bad, I really miss that playing lion with my launchpad. Hope it would be implemented in the futur...

[killmaster]

Is there a way to use poly after-touch with Lion ?

good question, i think not. in MPE mode, of course it works.

but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range.

it seems that LION only reacts to 'channel pressure' and not to 'polyphonic key pressure' (midi spec names). but normally, even developers, call it by other names, the first; aftertouch, second most of the times: poly-aftertouch.

sorry for the not direct answer;

i should check it, but no. poly aftertouch is special midi message, and LION seems only to react to normal aftertouch.

correct me if i am wrong, it could be a feature recquest. easily implemented? in way think. it isn't rocket science to implement it, because LION can do MPE..

I'm confused about this then. I have always thought that MPE channel pressure sends key pressure per individual note channel so in effect its just like poly aftertouch with each note having it's own separate pressure value being sent. But what you say makes sense cause the actual midi message ends up being a global message. Not sure what would happen if I use poly aftertouch in MPE mode in Dashboard as the press mode. But I'll try it. Seems like poly aftertouch is the way to go for MPE. Kinda the whole point of MPE to me is to separate out all expression possibilities per individual note so it's surprising that every implementation I've seen assumes press as channel pressure!

[muki]

I have a youtube window open just out of frame

thanks for the info
sounds quite multitasking-stressful

[killmaster]

Is there a way to use poly after-touch with Lion ?

good question, i think not. in MPE mode, of course it works.

but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range.

it seems that LION only reacts to 'channel pressure' and not to 'polyphonic key pressure' (midi spec names). but normally, even developers, call it by other names, the first; aftertouch, second most of the times: poly-aftertouch.

sorry for the not direct answer;

i should check it, but no. poly aftertouch is special midi message, and LION seems only to react to normal aftertouch.

correct me if i am wrong, it could be a feature recquest. easily implemented? in way think. it isn't rocket science to implement it, because LION can do MPE..

I'm confused about this then. I have always thought that MPE channel pressure sends key pressure per individual note channel so in effect its just like poly aftertouch with each note having it's own separate pressure value being sent. But what you say makes sense cause the actual midi message ends up being a global message. Not sure what would happen if I use poly aftertouch in MPE mode in Dashboard as the press mode. But I'll try it. Seems like poly aftertouch is the way to go for MPE. Kinda the whole point of MPE to me is to separate out all expression possibilities per individual note so it's surprising that every implementation I've seen assumes press as channel pressure!

I just realized that press mode is hardwired to channel pressure on my Seaboard RISE but I can set it to polyphonic aftertouch on my K-Board Pro. I'm unclear whether poly aftertouch will work in MPE to send a different pressure for each note or whether MPE spec requires channel pressure messages only.

[killmaster]

Is there a way to use poly after-touch with Lion ?

good question, i think not. in MPE mode, of course it works.

but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range.

it seems that LION only reacts to 'channel pressure' and not to 'polyphonic key pressure' (midi spec names). but normally, even developers, call it by other names, the first; aftertouch, second most of the times: poly-aftertouch.

sorry for the not direct answer;

i should check it, but no. poly aftertouch is special midi message, and LION seems only to react to normal aftertouch.

correct me if i am wrong, it could be a feature recquest. easily implemented? in way think. it isn't rocket science to implement it, because LION can do MPE..

I'm confused about this then. I have always thought that MPE channel pressure sends key pressure per individual note channel so in effect its just like poly aftertouch with each note having it's own separate pressure value being sent. But what you say makes sense cause the actual midi message ends up being a global message. Not sure what would happen if I use poly aftertouch in MPE mode in Dashboard as the press mode. But I'll try it. Seems like poly aftertouch is the way to go for MPE. Kinda the whole point of MPE to me is to separate out all expression possibilities per individual note so it's surprising that every implementation I've seen assumes press as channel pressure!

I just realized that press mode is hardwired to channel pressure on my Seaboard RISE but I can set it to polyphonic aftertouch on my K-Board Pro. I'm unclear whether poly aftertouch will work in MPE to send a different pressure for each note or whether MPE spec requires channel pressure messages only.

Think I figured it out. In MPE mode, I can send different note pressure for each note individually if the press mode is set to "Channel Pressure". If I set the pressure mode to "Poly Aftertouch", it doesn't work in MPE mode. It doesn't even send note pressure at all. So this statement seems incorrect to me:

"but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range."

channel pressure on separate channels allows pressure per note and not the highest bidder.

[ElVincente]

Ah thanks, setting Lion to Mpe then my midi controller to channel1 did the trick!

[WasteLand]

Is there a way to use poly after-touch with Lion ?

good question, i think not. in MPE mode, of course it works.

but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range.

it seems that LION only reacts to 'channel pressure' and not to 'polyphonic key pressure' (midi spec names). but normally, even developers, call it by other names, the first; aftertouch, second most of the times: poly-aftertouch.

sorry for the not direct answer;

i should check it, but no. poly aftertouch is special midi message, and LION seems only to react to normal aftertouch.

correct me if i am wrong, it could be a feature recquest. easily implemented? in way think. it isn't rocket science to implement it, because LION can do MPE..

I'm confused about this then. I have always thought that MPE channel pressure sends key pressure per individual note channel so in effect its just like poly aftertouch with each note having it's own separate pressure value being sent. But what you say makes sense cause the actual midi message ends up being a global message. Not sure what would happen if I use poly aftertouch in MPE mode in Dashboard as the press mode. But I'll try it. Seems like poly aftertouch is the way to go for MPE. Kinda the whole point of MPE to me is to separate out all expression possibilities per individual note so it's surprising that every implementation I've seen assumes press as channel pressure!

I just realized that press mode is hardwired to channel pressure on my Seaboard RISE but I can set it to polyphonic aftertouch on my K-Board Pro. I'm unclear whether poly aftertouch will work in MPE to send a different pressure for each note or whether MPE spec requires channel pressure messages only.

Think I figured it out. In MPE mode, I can send different note pressure for each note individually if the press mode is set to "Channel Pressure". If I set the pressure mode to "Poly Aftertouch", it doesn't work in MPE mode. It doesn't even send note pressure at all. So this statement seems incorrect to me:

"but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range."

channel pressure on separate channels allows pressure per note and not the highest bidder.

i wanted to answer; that is the same thing i mean, but my sentence is strange, confusing.
a keyboard with aftertouch, sends channel pressure. aftertouch for the highest bidder.

but MPE uses channel pressure, on several channels, so indeed, 'poly-aftertouch'. but not 'polyphonic key pressure', which works over 1 channel...

so my sentence is confusing..

you say it right. i also, but in confusing sentence... it looks like i am talking about MPE, but i am talking about 'channel pressure'.... sorry..

if i set my seabord block to 'polyphonic key pressure', or in roli terms; single channel under midi settings, and under play mode, pressure tracking to 'poly aftertouch'. it works like poly aftertouch keyboard, of course.. nice for the CS-80, for example, or waldorf largo..

[killmaster]

Is there a way to use poly after-touch with Lion ?

good question, i think not. in MPE mode, of course it works.

but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range.

it seems that LION only reacts to 'channel pressure' and not to 'polyphonic key pressure' (midi spec names). but normally, even developers, call it by other names, the first; aftertouch, second most of the times: poly-aftertouch.

sorry for the not direct answer;

i should check it, but no. poly aftertouch is special midi message, and LION seems only to react to normal aftertouch.

correct me if i am wrong, it could be a feature recquest. easily implemented? in way think. it isn't rocket science to implement it, because LION can do MPE..

I'm confused about this then. I have always thought that MPE channel pressure sends key pressure per individual note channel so in effect its just like poly aftertouch with each note having it's own separate pressure value being sent. But what you say makes sense cause the actual midi message ends up being a global message. Not sure what would happen if I use poly aftertouch in MPE mode in Dashboard as the press mode. But I'll try it. Seems like poly aftertouch is the way to go for MPE. Kinda the whole point of MPE to me is to separate out all expression possibilities per individual note so it's surprising that every implementation I've seen assumes press as channel pressure!

I just realized that press mode is hardwired to channel pressure on my Seaboard RISE but I can set it to polyphonic aftertouch on my K-Board Pro. I'm unclear whether poly aftertouch will work in MPE to send a different pressure for each note or whether MPE spec requires channel pressure messages only.

Think I figured it out. In MPE mode, I can send different note pressure for each note individually if the press mode is set to "Channel Pressure". If I set the pressure mode to "Poly Aftertouch", it doesn't work in MPE mode. It doesn't even send note pressure at all. So this statement seems incorrect to me:

"but MPE transmits 'channel pressure', that is aftertouch for the highest bidder, i.e. the key with highest aftertouch value, or better: for the whole key range."

channel pressure on separate channels allows pressure per note and not the highest bidder.

i wanted to answer; that is the same thing i mean, but my sentence is strange, confusing.
a keyboard with aftertouch, sends channel pressure. aftertouch for the highest bidder.

but MPE uses channel pressure, on several channels, so indeed, 'poly-aftertouch'. but not 'polyphonic key pressure', which works over 1 channel...

so my sentence is confusing..

you say it right. i also, but in confusing sentence... it looks like i am talking about MPE, but i am talking about 'channel pressure'.... sorry..

if i set my seabord block to 'polyphonic key pressure', or in roli terms; single channel under midi settings, and under play mode, pressure tracking to 'poly aftertouch'. it works like poly aftertouch keyboard, of course.. nice for the CS-80, for example, or waldorf largo..

Thanks for the clarification! I thought I was losing my mind for a minute

[WasteLand]

Thanks for the clarification! I thought I was losing my mind for a minute

i think some of my posts indeed have that effect... i shall be more clear in the future

one important sentence, with ambiguous grammar , o well..

you have your sanity back!

[killmaster]

Thanks for the clarification! I thought I was losing my mind for a minute

i think some of my posts indeed have that effect... i shall be more clear in the future

one important sentence, with ambiguous grammar , o well..

you have your sanity back!

haha, yeh. was useful to think about it all again in depth anyways! I'm always amazed how much effort it takes to convey exact meaning when it's important

[Dirtgrain]

I have a youtube window open just out of frame

thanks for the info
sounds quite multitasking-stressful

Since Covid, I've had to do quite a bit of teaching on Zoom. Oh man, when I get a class where kids engage with the chat, I really start feeling my years. Hats off to the streamers who can keep up with it while staying on point.

[WasteLand]

made an error while posting this, so shorter now..;

one (one!) instance of LION, with the circuit bent oscillator + VOSIM oscillator, mixer mode terrain. and only one effect of LION; the granulator.

patch from scratch. a MPE patch. modulation is all MPE.

rendered at 8x oversampling. etc. etc. some processing, in wavelab pro 10, low end mono, LUFS to soundcloud level, and resample/dithering from 32F/48.000 to 16/41.000.

so one (one!) instance of lion, played in cubase pro 11 (it does not matter which DAW, in way, i use nothing from the DAW...);

to me a (i made it, so i am very biased) great showcase of the possibilities;

https://soundcloud.com/user-873737123/idiosunkrasia

[databroth]

[jens]

I just got this (for 19USD) and it seems surprisingly great to me - BUT:

I may be very thick and daft, but how on earth do you create/control key-scaling? I didn't find anything in the manual.

Edit:

found the MIDI input - most of it is hidden by default - so that should be N then, right?

2nd edit: yes, that's much better!