KVR Audio

MuzikFreq · Post by **MuzikFreq** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:42 pm

roman.i wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:07 pm So... no Why you left Pro tools thread?

That one would be too obvious

excuse me please · Post by **excuse me please** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:51 pm

I didn't leave Bitwig, but I didn't want to start another thread also.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:21 pm

Well, I'm trying to make one project in 4 DAWs (the same one) to see which one I feel more productive with.

At first, Bitwig and Live were in the very top. That when I start to put my ideas. Editing ideas and replacing them are also have excellent workflow with Bitwig and Live.

Now to the arrangement stage. Markers and locators are headache in both Bitwig and Live. Bad or missing shortcuts to move between the markers. Looping area is not highlighted enough and here Cubase and S1 begin to shine. So easy and clear navigation with better mixer view. The arrangement and mixing are like day and night between those two groups while the first stage (ideas) where Bitwig and Live excel.

For me the arrangement and mixing/editing stage is where I spend my time and effort the most, so I believe S1 and Cubase are more essential for me, and such, they push the choice of others to the end.

So mostly, I'll choose S1/Cubase as my main inspite of that Bitwig and Live have more creativity.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:32 am

EnGee wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:21 pmSo mostly, I'll choose S1/Cubase as my main inspite of that Bitwig and Live have more creativity.

But what are you going to arrange & mix if you don't have an idea to begin with?

MuzikFreq · Post by **MuzikFreq** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:34 am

antic604 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:32 am
EnGee wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:21 pmSo mostly, I'll choose S1/Cubase as my main inspite of that Bitwig and Live have more creativity.
But what are you going to arrange & mix if you don't have an idea to begin with?

Do not look ay my avatar

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:43 am

Preferences and all that, but personally I start working on arrangement when I got rough idea about structure, laid it down and from there I make smaller moves, perk of having clip launcher area is to try all combinations and than commit to working ones, basically I got majority of project done before I commit to it, as antic604 said, if I don’t have anything worth arranging, than it’s kinda pointless having all those other perks.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:52 am

antic604 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:32 am
EnGee wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:21 pmSo mostly, I'll choose S1/Cubase as my main inspite of that Bitwig and Live have more creativity.
But what are you going to arrange & mix if you don't have an idea to begin with?

Bitwig and Live are not inspiring me magically! They just help me get testing ideas quicker.
Linear DAWs (S1, Cubase and Reaper) have "takes" instead, so this what I'm going to use instead of clips to test my ideas at first stage. Not as flexible as Live/Bitwig but they'll do.

Anyway, if things change in the future, I might use them again. I don't have a "blood contract" with S1, neither I sold my soul to Cubase

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:39 am

EnGee wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:52 am
antic604 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:32 am
EnGee wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:21 pmSo mostly, I'll choose S1/Cubase as my main inspite of that Bitwig and Live have more creativity.
But what are you going to arrange & mix if you don't have an idea to begin with?
Bitwig and Live are not inspiring me magically! They just help me get testing ideas quicker.
Linear DAWs (S1, Cubase and Reaper) have "takes" instead, so this what I'm going to use instead of clips to test my ideas at first stage. Not as flexible as Live/Bitwig but they'll do.

Anyway, if things change in the future, I might use them again. I don't have a "blood contract" with S1, neither I sold my soul to Cubase

Live 11 has takes, too.

What puzzles me though is you've chosen S1 + Cubase.
IMO they're not different enough to use both of them

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:41 am

EnGee wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:52 am
antic604 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:32 am
EnGee wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:21 pmSo mostly, I'll choose S1/Cubase as my main inspite of that Bitwig and Live have more creativity.
But what are you going to arrange & mix if you don't have an idea to begin with?
Bitwig and Live are not inspiring me magically! They just help me get testing ideas quicker.
Linear DAWs (S1, Cubase and Reaper) have "takes" instead, so this what I'm going to use instead of clips to test my ideas at first stage. Not as flexible as Live/Bitwig but they'll do.

Anyway, if things change in the future, I might use them again. I don't have a "blood contract" with S1, neither I sold my soul to Cubase

Personally since I bought Live 3 thinking it was a good way to add elastic audio to Logic 7, I've always used a combination of DAWs. Mostly if I'm working on something with 8-20 tracks I'll use these modern non stop audio engine DAWs like Bitwig. Old school DAWs like Logic, DP, Cubase etc. have dozens of ways to address big projects, and personally I get really tired of all the maintenance you have to do in Live or Bitwig for larger projects. I just set up a template in DP10 for East West Symphonic Orchestra, around 128 tracks, I can't imagine what Bitwig would be like working with that number. I haven't tried using Vienna Ensemble Pro in it but even then nothing seems 'right' about using Bitwig for orchestral stuff. Not to mention the CPU hit that having no buffering of unarmed audio tracks does. Logic etc. all have a good 20-25% more of your computers CPU to offer.

That said, if I'm firing up a song and have no idea what I want to do, the older DAWs are a headache. It's literally no fun to think about mangling audio in them compared to Bitwig.

So yeah Logic and DP do not currently replace Bitwig and Live for me. Different approaches entirely .

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 am

antic604 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:39 am
What puzzles me though is you've chosen S1 + Cubase.
IMO they're not different enough to use both of them

I have both, and the big difference is how they handle external hardware. Cubase is easy peasy. Studio One is a pain.

I only have S1 version 4.5, and I see that it had an update in version 5 to handle external synths better. But watching the official video for the latest update it still seems a hassle.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:56 am

antic604 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:39 am Live 11 has takes, too.

Takes in Ableton Live doesn't serve me, because if I want another go, I just record another clip. I'm also not fun of combo editing.

What puzzles me though is you've chosen S1 + Cubase.
IMO they're not different enough to use both of them

There is no puzzle at all! Because I'm not using them at the same time!
I'm still testing because neither one is perfect, however, S1 has a better performance overall with less problems (v5.2). Cubase still behind in performance, although I solved the spikes problem, so S1 is my first choice for now while Cubase is a backup.

machinesworking wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:41 am That said, if I'm firing up a song and have no idea what I want to do, the older DAWs are a headache. It's literally no fun to think about mangling audio in them compared to Bitwig.

So yeah Logic and DP do not currently replace Bitwig and Live for me. Different approaches entirely .

There was a time (long time really) when I had a "writer's block". I couldn't come with anything of value for me at all! Things has changed lately and my mind is much clearer now. I always feel inspired now, but the problem I don't have a great motive to make something! Anyway, I'm trying to just enjoy myself doing something

So, as I said, I always have something in my mind and the DAW is there just to help me write what in my mind and organise the ideas. Live and Bitwig are better than Cubase and S1 in this, but it doesn't mean S1 and Cubase are bad in this! I used to use Cubase since VST 32 and Logic 4 (didn't have money before that). So, I'm used to "old" DAWs and I have no problem in using them.

The workflow, kind of music and taste are what make us different in using DAWs. I like to use the keyboard (PC keyboard) to navigate and to start/stop recording, while the mouse is for editing. I don't do many tracks and I don't do orchestral work. I also don't do EDM. So, for my kind of making music, most of DAWs are ok, but one with the most convenient shortcuts in Arrangement is essential for me. I mostly play and record what I play in midi mostly without editing because I like the feel of playing the whole section. Anyway, I'm not a good player, so I edit my mistakes instead of keep repeating.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:28 am

dellboy wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:49 am
antic604 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:39 am
What puzzles me though is you've chosen S1 + Cubase.
IMO they're not different enough to use both of them
I have both, and the big difference is how they handle external hardware. Cubase is easy peasy. Studio One is a pain.

I only have S1 version 4.5, and I see that it had an update in version 5 to handle external synths better. But watching the official video for the latest update it still seems a hassle.

Actually, it is easy now in S1 v5:

In v4 I remember I also could do it, but inserting two tracks one for Instrument (midi) and one for Audio. Anyway, in the setup remember that to use (send to) for the synth only and use (receive to) in the midi keyboard section, so you add two devices in the setup, one for the instrument (synth or module) and one for the keyboard (the synth keyboard if it has one).

In version 5 it is much easier really (easier than Cubase as well!).

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:14 am

I used both Cubase and Studio One for several years, couldn't decide ...like different aspects of both. I did however use them both for the same tasks (unlike Live/Bigwig) so eventually (last year) I sold Cubase and have regrets so far. I still have both BWS and Live, I use them as instruments as much as I use them as DAWS, so I don't really have the same internal debate and fortunately their is no law saying I can only have one

If the '1 DAW' law is ever passed, it would be Studio One (with Bitwig a close second)

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:33 am

I also sold Cubase in the past and then regretted. I actually sold all of them several times

Anyway, this is the reason I got all of them now and not selling any. I want to spend as much time as I need before I choose my main one. I'm almost done with my choice, but I want to finish this piece and see the result before I stick mostly with one.

Of course there is no law of how to use DAWs! But for me I need to focus on the tools I'm using so I can be productive, otherwise I just end with tens of unfinished pieces in every DAW which makes me feel so distracted and frustrated when I run the DAW and see a list of them.
S1 and Cubase share almost the same shortcuts, so not much of trying to remember what was that and what was this command.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:44 am

EnGee wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:28 am

In version 5 it is much easier really (easier than Cubase as well!).

I can only say that I watched that video through last night and it seemed very convoluted compared to how easy it is in Cubase. I guess I could download the demo and see if it is worth the upgrade.

By the way, I see that you have a Yamaha MODX. I have been thinking of buying one of those as I prefer the ease of using an external synth. How is the keybed and are the sounds any good in your opinion ?

Why you left Bitwig?