PA Maag EQ4 vs EQ2 - is the air on 4 smoother?

[Ploki]

Ugh, i'll bite, but only because of my contempt towards PA.

[Ploki]

took me 1 minutes to cancel it to -33dB and couldn't be arsed to do it further, i discovered that boosting AIR at 40khz actually boosts entire signal for 4.6dB (on top of the shelf).

Typical PA bullshit - doing something to mess with loudness to sound more impressive than it is

it's bog standard minimal phase EQ with absolutely nothing special going on, and doing the same "air band" with Pro-Q3 Natural phase or any EQ with oversampling to prevent cramping will be better.


https://imgur.com/a/zeiBOlr

for some EQs it can be at least be argued that there's at least curves modelled and shit, but don't write "40k" on your knob when you're brickwalled by nyquist at 20-somethingK, because it just looks like you have no clue what you're doing

[Ou_Tis]

took me 1 minutes to cancel it to -33dB and couldn't be arsed to do it further, i discovered that boosting AIR at 40khz actually boosts entire signal for 4.6dB (on top of the shelf).

Typical PA bullshit - doing something to mess with loudness to sound more impressive than it is

it's bog standard minimal phase EQ with absolutely nothing special going on, and doing the same "air band" with Pro-Q3 Natural phase or any EQ with oversampling to prevent cramping will be better.


https://imgur.com/a/zeiBOlr

for some EQs it can be at least be argued that there's at least curves modelled and shit, but don't write "40k" on your knob when you're brickwalled by nyquist at 20-somethingK, because it just looks like you have no clue what you're doing

Audio please. (Blind test.) Also at 20 khz and 10 khz. Preferably with Maag 4 rather than Maag 2 if that's not too much trouble; as I observed when I started this thread, I like the air on Maag 4 more than the air on Maag 2 (the plugin that is, the hardware sounds great)---somehow Maag 2 sounds harsher. It could be an effect of the additional curves introduced by Maag 4 in neutral position.

[4damind]

Maag describes the Air Band as follow:

The Concept of the AIR BAND is simple: its’s a high-frequency shelving filter. But unlike most shelves, the corner frequency stretches well beyond the audible range

(maag.audio)

[Burillo]

for some EQs it can be at least be argued that there's at least curves modelled and shit, but don't write "40k" on your knob when you're brickwalled by nyquist at 20-somethingK, because it just looks like you have no clue what you're doing

that's the center frequency for the shelf. it's totally legitimate to call it "40k" if that's where the center frequency is, even if it's inaudible.

[Burillo]

i've just tested them in Plugin doctor. both are for all intents and purposes identical, both in terms of frequency and phase response. they're not exactly the same but the curve is similar enough to consider them to be equivalent.

2021-04-03_17-45-50.png

[Ploki]

Audio please. (Blind test.) Also at 20 khz and 10 khz. Preferably with Maag 4 rather than Maag 2 if that's not too much trouble; as I observed when I started this thread, I like the air on Maag 4 more than the air on Maag 2 (the plugin that is, the hardware sounds great)---somehow Maag 2 sounds harsher. It could be an effect of the additional curves introduced by Maag 4 in neutral position.

i don't have trial for maag EQ4 anymore, so EQ2 will have to do.
i'll do you one more and throw in Logic's Channel EQ in the mix so it's more exciting.

[Ploki]

that's the center frequency for the shelf. it's totally legitimate to call it "40k" if that's where the center frequency is, even if it's inaudible.

I know, i'm just being obtuse out of contempt for PA

Audio please. (Blind test.) Also at 20 khz and 10 khz. Preferably with Maag 4 rather than Maag 2 if that's not too much trouble; as I observed when I started this thread, I like the air on Maag 4 more than the air on Maag 2 (the plugin that is, the hardware sounds great)---somehow Maag 2 sounds harsher. It could be an effect of the additional curves introduced by Maag 4 in neutral position.

so, 10k, 20k, 40k with Pro-Q3 (Minimal phase), MaagEQ2, Logic ChannelEQ (no oversampling)
Every example has some drums, acoustic guitars, some vocals by billie eilish (logic demo song)
it's not PERFECTLY matched, but it should be in the ballpark.

https://we.tl/t-Ttyc0Gg33L

[Ou_Tis]

that's the center frequency for the shelf. it's totally legitimate to call it "40k" if that's where the center frequency is, even if it's inaudible.

I know, i'm just being obtuse out of contempt for PA

Audio please. (Blind test.) Also at 20 khz and 10 khz. Preferably with Maag 4 rather than Maag 2 if that's not too much trouble; as I observed when I started this thread, I like the air on Maag 4 more than the air on Maag 2 (the plugin that is, the hardware sounds great)---somehow Maag 2 sounds harsher. It could be an effect of the additional curves introduced by Maag 4 in neutral position.

so, 10k, 20k, 40k with Pro-Q3 (Minimal phase), MaagEQ2, Logic ChannelEQ (no oversampling)
Every example has some drums, acoustic guitars, some vocals by billie eilish (logic demo song)
it's not PERFECTLY matched, but it should be in the ballpark.

https://we.tl/t-Ttyc0Gg33L

They definitely sound different. Sounds like you had the Maag 2 as B for each. (I decided that without being consciously aware of the order in which you listed them. But the difference in the bass is also a dead giveaway, so a better blind test would match the bass and randomize the order.)

[Ploki]

They definitely sound different. Sounds like you had the Maag 2 as B for each. (I decided that without being consciously aware of the order in which you listed them. But the difference in the bass is also a dead giveaway, so a better blind test would match the bass and randomize the order.)

not bad.

10K B = maag
20K B = maag
40K B = logic channel EQ

Can you tell which of the 40K is maag, and which is ProQ3 and which is Logic Channel EQ? (Logic channel EQ should be really easy to identify now that you know that B is it for 40k)

i'll try to do a better match and throw some other plugs in the mix - but not today.

[Ou_Tis]

They definitely sound different. Sounds like you had the Maag 2 as B for each. (I decided that without being consciously aware of the order in which you listed them. But the difference in the bass is also a dead giveaway, so a better blind test would match the bass and randomize the order.)

not bad.

10K B = maag
20K B = maag
40K B = logic channel EQ

Can you tell which of the 40K is maag, and which is ProQ3 and which is Logic Channel EQ? (Logic channel EQ should be really easy to identify now that you know that B is it for 40k)

i'll try to do a better match and throw some other plugs in the mix - but not today.

Hm, interesting, yes 40k sounds the most similar. 40k Maag is C?

[Ploki]

Hm, interesting, yes 40k sounds the most similar. 40k Maag is C?

why, yes it is!

i spent the most time matching 40K, 20 and 10 were an afterthought. I'll try to do more EQs and use new examples

[jochicago]

I think the exercise has already beared some fruit, but I wanted to add that when we are looking at analog emulation stuff we can't just go by a graph from Plugin Doctor because it's not good at revealing non-linearities. I've seen it be dead wrong on a number of occasions. I think it's because the pulses used to sample the plugin and make a graph don't correspond to the natural behavior of the plugin when it's processing actual material.

So for this stuff, if you want a comparison, Plugin Doctor is a good place to start, but in the end we need to process and judge real material, not just an impulse designed to build a neat chart.

[Ploki]

Nonlinearities cause harmonics.
I still maintain i did a poor match more than anything else

[MogwaiBoy]

It's not even a SHELF on Maag EQ4 - it is infact a bell near Nyquist. LOL

This is what a real 40k shelf looks like (SlickEQM in red)



Blindtest / personal preference or not - Maag EQ is falsely advertised. People buy the Maag for this magical 40k shelf which is a fake. PA have made millions from this one plugin because of a lie.

SlickEQ is so much cheaper, true 64-bit, no quantization and does so, so much more. It's a no brainer who you should support - an honest developer over a deceptive one.