One Synth Challenge #146: Sinmad by NUSofting (Voting Started!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
DASH Guy
7651 posts since 20 Sep, 2001

Post Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:02 am

There are two named cellonoise and two dancing cellos, which one?

Anyway I played them all with 0.9.3 and 0.9.7, I found only a minimal difference of volume.
Please not that the patches outside the "1 Start U" bank have been made with older versions (0.8.x)
and some new parameters were not defined yet, hence when saved and reloaded now they may have different sound and volume.
By now with 0.9.7 most of the sound engine bugs should have been fixed and all features defined.
So it should be safe to save new patches for productions, today is April 8, we have 22 more days to the end of this OSC month.

Cheers, thanks and good luck everybody.
] Peter:H [ wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:44 am
liqih wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:38 am
] Peter:H [ wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am
I have tried the new version with my submission track. Seems the volumes of some patches have changed now... weird. The track needs a rebalance with that version!? Could this be more alpha testing?
Only Wave "1" FM could have had a little gain change, not anywhere else, could you share a patch that sounded different before 0.9.7 ? Thanks.
Cello Patch from the Presets. Only minimaly tweaked it so that it's basically still the preset. It's gotten louder in 0.97.
http://nusofting.com
NUSofting : Peti Modelonia Sinnah

KVRist
152 posts since 22 Jun, 2019

Post Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:11 pm

Are you guys using the FM options ? It seems to me it doesn't do anything... (I use reaper win10)

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KVRAF
1976 posts since 29 Sep, 2011

Post Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:16 pm

ElVincente wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:11 pm
Are you guys using the FM options ? It seems to me it doesn't do anything... (I use reaper win10)
You need to be on Wave 1 (with the FM in the icon), it doesn't go very extreme, though.

KVRist
152 posts since 22 Jun, 2019

Post Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:36 pm

Ah thanks, I get it now...

KVRist
210 posts since 13 Jul, 2009

Post Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:15 am

I think I'm going to join this OSC. I've done enough years of lurking. Hoping I don't embarrass myself.

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KVRist
156 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:00 am

liqih wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:33 am
1) Delay-test.zip : I listened to your mp3, made a MIDI track 120 BPM with same note repeated every 1/4 the accelerating to 1/16, used you patch and varied release from min to max, but the delay is always there. You can hear it when the rate of note match almost the delay time.
With higher feedback and input to full (switch not half colored) it's easy to hear it.
So I couldn't reproduce missing delays.
Thinking maybe there was some difference between plugin versions, I tried this with the Mac VST and AU, and also on Windows 10. It works the same for me in each. With a little more testing, I found that if the amp envelope's decay is short enough, and the sustain is 0, it doesn't drop any delays regardless of the release time. I'm attaching a Reaper project which displays the delay dropping for me on both MacOS and Windows.

I've also encountered a situation where a mono patch will cut out with a click, for a short time. This seems to happen if a note off and the note on for the subsequent note happen at (or very close to?) the same time, but only if the first note has been sounding long enough. The second project in the attachment has an example, where the first MIDI clip does not result in dropped audio but the second does. The only difference in the clips is how long the initial note is held. It seems to be the same regardless of the patch. Here I've just taken "a clean start" and flipped it to mono. It cuts out consistently on MacOS, but in this case I did not see the same behavior when I loaded the project on Windows.
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DASH Guy
7651 posts since 20 Sep, 2001

Post Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:04 pm

Many thanks for your deep testing, I really appreciate it and will check you example carefully.
FrogsInPants wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:00 am
liqih wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:33 am
1) Delay-test.zip : I listened to your mp3, made a MIDI track 120 BPM with same note repeated every 1/4 the accelerating to 1/16, used you patch and varied release from min to max, but the delay is always there. You can hear it when the rate of note match almost the delay time.
With higher feedback and input to full (switch not half colored) it's easy to hear it.
So I couldn't reproduce missing delays.
Thinking maybe there was some difference between plugin versions, I tried this with the Mac VST and AU, and also on Windows 10. It works the same for me in each. With a little more testing, I found that if the amp envelope's decay is short enough, and the sustain is 0, it doesn't drop any delays regardless of the release time. I'm attaching a Reaper project which displays the delay dropping for me on both MacOS and Windows.

I've also encountered a situation where a mono patch will cut out with a click, for a short time. This seems to happen if a note off and the note on for the subsequent note happen at (or very close to?) the same time, but only if the first note has been sounding long enough. The second project in the attachment has an example, where the first MIDI clip does not result in dropped audio but the second does. The only difference in the clips is how long the initial note is held. It seems to be the same regardless of the patch. Here I've just taken "a clean start" and flipped it to mono. It cuts out consistently on MacOS, but in this case I did not see the same behavior when I loaded the project on Windows.
http://nusofting.com
NUSofting : Peti Modelonia Sinnah

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KVRist
61 posts since 31 Aug, 2017 from Netherlands

Post Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:16 pm

Can i just say that i really like the way you can randomize the parameters? Clicking on the far right to generate completely new timbres and more on the left side to create variations is a very neat solution to let you exercise some control over the randomness. Every synth should have this. Little nitpick, I wish the random box would be a bit larger so it would be easier to aim with the mouse for the right value.
I was also pleasantly surprised that i could port a custom theme i made for Sinnah to this synth :)

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KVRian
837 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:30 am

I still am finding the issue with the sound dying on 0.9.7 on Mac. It's hard to reproduce, and happens at different times, but often it's enough to play notes rapidly without tweaking anything, and it just dies. Only fix is to reload the plugin.

DASH Guy
7651 posts since 20 Sep, 2001

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:00 am

EscapeControl wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:16 pm
Can i just say that i really like the way you can randomize the parameters? Clicking on the far right to generate completely new timbres and more on the left side to create variations is a very neat solution to let you exercise some control over the randomness. Every synth should have this. Little nitpick, I wish the random box would be a bit larger so it would be easier to aim with the mouse for the right value.
I was also pleasantly surprised that i could port a custom theme i made for Sinnah to this synth :)
Thanks for your feedback, the idea of randomizer is that you can adjust the random deviation from the currently loaded preset. As you wrote, clicking on the far left of the rectangle you have the minimum deviation.
http://nusofting.com
NUSofting : Peti Modelonia Sinnah

DASH Guy
7651 posts since 20 Sep, 2001

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:02 am

teilo wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:30 am
I still am finding the issue with the sound dying on 0.9.7 on Mac. It's hard to reproduce, and happens at different times, but often it's enough to play notes rapidly without tweaking anything, and it just dies. Only fix is to reload the plugin.
So far it didn't happen here, was it with wave 1? I will try more. Thanks.
http://nusofting.com
NUSofting : Peti Modelonia Sinnah

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KVRAF
5500 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:02 am

Could you check the pitch bend again? It should work the same as in the free Surge. That does it correct on both main PB and MPE PB...

DASH Guy
7651 posts since 20 Sep, 2001

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:10 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:02 am
Could you check the pitch bend again? It should work the same as in the free Surge. That does it correct on both main PB and MPE PB...
OK, I will compare the PB curve to the Surge response.
http://nusofting.com
NUSofting : Peti Modelonia Sinnah

DASH Guy
7651 posts since 20 Sep, 2001

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:03 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:02 am
Could you check the pitch bend again? It should work the same as in the free Surge. That does it correct on both main PB and MPE PB...
I have made a pitch bend value scale in Ableton Live, as you see in the picture, I played that both with Sinmad 0.9.7 and Surge 1.6.6 (both set with up an down 12 ST range in PB): they play the same pitches. Therefore I don't see or hear any difference between the PB scaling in the two synths. Did I do something wrong testing like that?
pb_scale.png
The picture shows a C MIDI note (black) and the PB modulation in red.
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http://nusofting.com
NUSofting : Peti Modelonia Sinnah

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KVRAF
5500 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:25 am

It might be that what you do is pitch expression and not Midi pitch bend. If you set the range to 24 and send a Midi PB value of 12287 or 12288 it should be one octave above but it isn't...

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