It may be a strange question, but percussion elements such as kick, clap, snare, hi hats etc should be in the same key as the whole song?
For example, when in FL Studio I want to the project in the key of C Major and select the drum samples, then in the Edison editor I check, for example, the kick sample and click '' detect pitch regions '', it shows that the kick can be in C#, i.e. in a sound that is not in the key of C, should I transfer it in sampler one semitone to C?
Should the percussion elements be in the same key as the song?
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- KVRAF
- 3477 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
You're likely to get 100 different valid answers here.
For me it comes down to function. Does your sound have a stable tonal centre and, if so, are you using it as a tonal element? I can't really see any application for (or even envision strongly tonal variations of) hi-hats and claps, but for long 808 kicks or distorted 909s that pull double duty as bass instruments/anchors, or certain snares like the very high pitched 'water drip' snares in some late-10s EDMs, perhaps it does and perhaps you are.
My gut feeling is that if you can't hear a tonal clash (or indeed hear an obvious tone) then it doesn't need to be tuned, or 'tuning' it is more a matter of getting it to sit in the mix.
For me it comes down to function. Does your sound have a stable tonal centre and, if so, are you using it as a tonal element? I can't really see any application for (or even envision strongly tonal variations of) hi-hats and claps, but for long 808 kicks or distorted 909s that pull double duty as bass instruments/anchors, or certain snares like the very high pitched 'water drip' snares in some late-10s EDMs, perhaps it does and perhaps you are.
My gut feeling is that if you can't hear a tonal clash (or indeed hear an obvious tone) then it doesn't need to be tuned, or 'tuning' it is more a matter of getting it to sit in the mix.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105855 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
there's no "should" it's whatever works
some tracks the percussion is more tonal as cron says, so yeah, of course, tom rolls for example is a basic with different tuning on each tom.
some elements, it's a little less important, theyre all but transients, bit of noise and done.
most of all, do the samples you're using sound ok or out of whack?
don't create work where it's not needed.
some tracks the percussion is more tonal as cron says, so yeah, of course, tom rolls for example is a basic with different tuning on each tom.
some elements, it's a little less important, theyre all but transients, bit of noise and done.
most of all, do the samples you're using sound ok or out of whack?
don't create work where it's not needed.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33173 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
I tune all my cymbals to radio 4.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 11051 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle
My radio sounded like sizzle-cymbals, when I tried to tune it.
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
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- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
isn't a xylophone a percussion instrument?
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
It is (so is the piano), but the list in the OP was "kick, clap, snare, hi hats etc"
I don't get a pitched instrument in the et cetera there... 'the percussion elements' is a broader goal than the question in their post.
the reason I bring that up is to broaden perspective and maybe to spur examination of the concept.
Drummer tune their drums, but it's far more subtle than 'Kick has to be the tonic of the key'.
There are those Octatoms I think they're called which are pretty much pitched, and Bozzio has all kind of pitched toms.
Even timpani have all of this inharmonicity (but can be recorded or mixed to minimize it).
I don't get a pitched instrument in the et cetera there... 'the percussion elements' is a broader goal than the question in their post.
the reason I bring that up is to broaden perspective and maybe to spur examination of the concept.
Drummer tune their drums, but it's far more subtle than 'Kick has to be the tonic of the key'.
There are those Octatoms I think they're called which are pretty much pitched, and Bozzio has all kind of pitched toms.
Even timpani have all of this inharmonicity (but can be recorded or mixed to minimize it).
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- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
sorry jan, I was lazy with my typing...this one of those questions I honestly never thought about before and just kinda blurted out
ftr I use to have a drummer who insisted on quiet when he tuned his heads but try and get him to not bang on them when I was tuning
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRian
- 1166 posts since 11 Jan, 2006 from Pittsburgh
For those kind of percussion elements, pitch isn't really pertinent, but if the percussion sample is playing back at a different 'pitch' than it was recorded at, it will sound different. It's up to you, really.hinson wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:36 pm It may be a strange question, but percussion elements such as kick, clap, snare, hi hats etc should be in the same key as the whole song?
For example, when in FL Studio I want to the project in the key of C Major and select the drum samples, then in the Edison editor I check, for example, the kick sample and click '' detect pitch regions '', it shows that the kick can be in C#, i.e. in a sound that is not in the key of C, should I transfer it in sampler one semitone to C?
As others mentioned, there are pitched percussion instruments (xylophon, tubular bells, etc.), but it doesn't seem that those were the kinds of percussion you were concerned about.
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- KVRer
- 17 posts since 29 Mar, 2021
I used to be very careful to try to tune all of my samples into the key (not necessarily to the tonic). Key word "try" - of course it isn't really possible to tune samples that are nearly all noise or transient, or if you do it's probably going to just be placebo.
However, if you have a tonally dense track and you throw an 808 on it - or any kick with a long total sustain - you'll definitely find out quickly what effect that being out of tune can have.
Like a lot of things, there isn't any easy answer, but several things to consider and balance together:
- How low is the sample? Lower end sounds like kicks and toms are going to noticeably affect harmony more than high end.
- Does the sample have any stable, tonal sustain? Or is it mostly transient? Even if there's a fundamental tone hidden in a transient, if it's sharing space with other frequencies at roughly the same volume and range, you're unlikely to hear it. It's only sustain that you'll really hear as a tone.
- Can you hear any difference in context, by transposing it? This is by far the most important. For drums especially, what you see on the screen and what you hear can often be different, because there are psychoacoustic phenomena at play.
Keep all this in mind and experiment for yourself - and trust your own ears!
However, if you have a tonally dense track and you throw an 808 on it - or any kick with a long total sustain - you'll definitely find out quickly what effect that being out of tune can have.
Like a lot of things, there isn't any easy answer, but several things to consider and balance together:
- How low is the sample? Lower end sounds like kicks and toms are going to noticeably affect harmony more than high end.
- Does the sample have any stable, tonal sustain? Or is it mostly transient? Even if there's a fundamental tone hidden in a transient, if it's sharing space with other frequencies at roughly the same volume and range, you're unlikely to hear it. It's only sustain that you'll really hear as a tone.
- Can you hear any difference in context, by transposing it? This is by far the most important. For drums especially, what you see on the screen and what you hear can often be different, because there are psychoacoustic phenomena at play.
Keep all this in mind and experiment for yourself - and trust your own ears!
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- KVRAF
- 10255 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA
It can be a stylistic thing. In many forms of house, electro, techno, downtempo, etc., it’s very common to tune percussion elements to the key of the song, particularly with 808/909 sounds, as mentioned.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105855 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRAF
- 11051 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle
Indeed. Deccabons, Rototoms, and Octobans
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil
