Brainworx bx_limiter True Peak : let's discuss

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRAF

Topic Starter

4916 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:15 pm

AGIGA wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:03 pm
@escalona, @plexuss, @Ploki so will you go on like this on every Plugin Alliance, Brainworx related KVR Post for the rest of your life? We all know now for a while that you have a personal problem with Dirk Ulrich,so no need to bring that up every single time someone post something about the company. martinjuenke wanted to discuss about Brainworx bx_limiter True Peak not about Dirk Ulrich.
Well, yes, exactly.
The behaviour of some guys here is quite predictable.
I do not expect that they change their habit.
If it helps them to heal their wounds from the past, well, why not.
We should just ignore these unproductive posts.
YMMV.

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KVRAF
15219 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:34 pm

martinjuenke wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:21 am
Someone already tested it?
Someone already an opinion?
Did you test it ? What is your opinion ?
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

KVRer
11 posts since 23 Aug, 2005

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:55 pm

escalona wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:12 pm
AGIGA wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:03 pm
@escalona, @plexuss, @Ploki so will you go on like this on every Plugin Alliance, Brainworx related KVR Post for the rest of your life? We all know now for a while that you have a personal problem with Dirk Ulrich,so no need to bring that up every single time someone post something about the company. martinjuenke wanted to discuss about Brainworx bx_limiter True Peak not about Dirk Ulrich.
You can click on any of our names and then click on "Add foe" so you don't have to see or read whatever our contributions to the forum may be. Fixed.
Oh, wonderful. Thank you.

KVRAF
3630 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:44 pm

AGIGA wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:03 pm
@escalona, @plexuss, @Ploki so will you go on like this on every Plugin Alliance, Brainworx related KVR Post for the rest of your life?
Yes
AGIGA wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:03 pm
martinjuenke wanted to discuss about Brainworx bx_limiter True Peak not about Dirk Ulrich.
I did discuss the limiter. I dont see how its in anyway special except that it looks poorly coded (as even a single instance drops my whole UI fps including DAW to like 15fps).
I think it’s late and underwhelming and there’s nothing better on it than cheaper established alternatives.
Pretty tho i guess?

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KVRAF
4244 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:43 pm

I just tested it out. The text on the GUI is not high enough contrast to be easily visible, so that was a challenge. This is a loud limter - I was able to get -3 LUFS 0.2dB ceiling, with no ISPs. This is with XL @100%. With a 0db ceiling there were no ISPs generated in Youlean however AppleRoundTrip was showing a moderate ISP density with 0.2dB peaks. With a 0.2dB ceiling there were no ISP density with either Youlean or Apple.

I have to say I haven't seen a limiter, I dont recall, that can hit 3 LUFS. Adding XL really crushes the sound. For my use, it might be useful as a track character limiter when I really want to crush the audio. Might be a good mastering limiter but I'd need to spend more time with it to speak to that. Even if I owned bx_limiter I'd still use Limitless instead for mastering for various reasons. Cool limiter. Worth maybe $100 regular $50 on sale or so compared to the competition.

Oversampling: I believe that "Selective Oversampling" is a built-in algo for determining the best oversampling for the signal and doesn't mean "user selectable" - I couldn't see any OS options so I think this is the intent of the feature based on RTFM.

Good luck with your loudness wars.

Screen Shot 2021-04-13 at 7.03.25 PM.png
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Last edited by plexuss on Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.

KVRian
1006 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:53 pm

I'm writing with an opinion on the plugin. I'm sorry if I'm disturbing the obligatory multiple pages of unrelated bickering before we can talk about the plugin. I ask that a mod moves my post to page 5 or wherever it's appropriate.

Now, about the plugin. I did a quick shootout against a dozen limiters. Don't have FF but tried against Ozone, Limiter 6 GE, Waves, etc.

For this test I used a rock song mixed by me. I aimed for a silly -5.5db LUFS, to push all the limiters past the breaking point and really hear how they cope.

Seeing that this PA plugin seems to be meant for non mastering people, I'm judging on sound quality with ease of use.

I'm ranking in this order: pure sound quality -> easy mastering in 4 clicks -> proper true peak or at least not out of control -> extra features to keep customizing if we want to.

-
First I need to take Ozone out of the run. It's too good, has automatic mastering, plus too many great modules to adjust the sound. So hands down I'd rather have Ozone vs the PA plugin. But Ozone has a list price of $250.
-

So after 30 mins of consideration, the winners of the easy shootout are (in no order):
TB Barricade 4, TDR Limiter 6 GE.

These had good quality sound, achieved very easily. Plus enough configuration options to keep customizing the sound.

The worst plugin by a distance was Waves L3 Ultra. The interface is nice and easy, the slider lets you go very far in loudness, and the sound was hot garbage at -5.5db when the other ones were just starting to break. In their defense, Waves L3 Multi was better, it still sounded rough on default but with the bands exposed you can try to fix it (but I still wouldn't use it like this).

This PA plugin ranked around middle. It's not bad but it wasn't particularly good in this scenario. With such limited controls there wasn't much I could do to make it not break, so it breaks when it breaks. Granted, I was abusing it at -5.5db, but I did the same to the others.

Re: CPU - for me half as much as Ozone, but 5x as much as TB Barricade 4.

So my opinion with this plugin is that it's going to be a matter of taste. Are you getting along with the simple controls, do they do what you want. Does the limiter sound good with your type of music.

But I can tell you, it's not the magical thing it claims to be. IMO it does not outperform the other limiters at staying clean when abused.

I then did a quick test at a reasonable -8db LUFS with the best performers. This is a more typical scenario. I have to say I liked the PA plugin okish in this setting. But for this particular rock song the winner was Limiter 6 GE because in the default setting it managed the reduction while feeling louder and having strong energy in the low end. The PA plugin was fine and cleanish but lost some perceived power to get to -8db.

I repeat for clarity: I was deliberately trying to avoid touching settings on all plugins. I was using the default or clicking 4 times max. Something like TB Barricade 4 might fare better if we allow more customization. Likewise, the PA plugin would likely fare worse if we compare against limiters that allow more customization.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

4916 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:53 pm

@jochicago
Thanks for you comprehensive description.
Saves me from impulse buying.
:tu:

KVRAF
3630 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:39 am

plexuss wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:43 pm
Oversampling: I believe that "Selective Oversampling" is a built-in algo for determining the best oversampling for the signal and doesn't mean "user selectable" - I couldn't see any OS options so I think this is the intent of the feature based on RTFM.

Good luck with your loudness wars.
imo that's just the auto-oversampling algo.
oversamples @4x when working at 44.1, @2x when working at 96k, etc.

It doesn't alias, kudos for PA.

If you have Elephant, going with:
EL-C mode
- Trans "Sharp"
- Transient Time "0.10'
- Trans Shape "-0.75"
- DRC "RLS"
- El Dyn "2"
gets you in the ballpark of Modern.

Foundation is a tilt-shelf, XL looks like parallel compression or upward compression before limiter.
I can't see how this could be worth more than 29.99$ given all the flexible highly configurable and cleaner alternatives on the market.
This is 249$,
Elephant is 109$,
Pro L2 is 169€,
TD6 is 50€,
AOM is 200$
DMG Limitless is 210€.
even whole Ozone 9 suite is 250€.


I do like the neomorphic skin tho

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KVRian
1124 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:13 am

It sounds like it's made for Rock and 'dirtier' music genres. For transparent limiting, this one is not as good as Ozone's Limiter (when pushed harder). IMO it sounds good. I expected it to suck the life out of the mix but it doesn't. I think that maybe I'll grab it when it hit the sweet $29 price. But then, do I really need another limiter?

EDIT: I also like the style of GUI.

https://youtu.be/xnDehWnrTn8
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

User avatar
KVRAF
4244 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:08 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:39 am
plexuss wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:43 pm
Oversampling: I believe that "Selective Oversampling" is a built-in algo for determining the best oversampling for the signal and doesn't mean "user selectable" - I couldn't see any OS options so I think this is the intent of the feature based on RTFM.

Good luck with your loudness wars.
XL looks like parallel compression or upward compression before limiter.
XL is PA distortion algo found on earlier products.

KVRist
355 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:12 am

Those of you who mention Ozone as being a good limiter: which limiter algo are you talking about? I used the Elements version which has IRC I and IRC II modes. I must say I'm not a big fan (Donald Trump voice).

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KVRian
1124 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:44 am

Kazi7 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:12 am
Those of you who mention Ozone as being a good limiter: which limiter algo are you talking about? I used the Elements version which has IRC I and IRC II modes. I must say I'm not a big fan (Donald Trump voice).
IRCIV Modern or Transient are my choices. From the time I got Ozone, I worked only on Electronic Dance Music tracks tho.
But there are professional mastering engineers who swear on IRC II as their favourite mode.
IRC I and II are good but on single instruments imo. I dislike IRC III - imo this one sounds horrible and is giving nasty artifacts faster than the other modes.
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

User avatar
KVRAF
4244 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:22 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:39 am
imo that's just the auto-oversampling algo. oversamples @4x when working at 44.1, @2x when working at 96k, etc.
I don't think this is correct. From PA's site (I deleted all the zero-value marketing hype):
Selective Oversampling
It relies on “Selective Oversampling” (SOS), to employ oversampling only where it actually improves the signal, and to avoid it where it has been found to compromise the sound. Coupled with its “Advanced Look-Ahead” design, it is able to deliver tighter, more accurate low end and better stereo imaging than any other true peak limiter around, even at extreme settings.
Perhaps this is how they are able to such highly compressed loudness out of it although I am not sure how the two can be correalated. It does appear to be one of the loudest limiters I know of.

KVRian
942 posts since 16 Jan, 2018 from Portland, OR USA

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:31 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:39 am
I can't see how this could be worth more than 29.99$ given all the flexible highly configurable and cleaner alternatives on the market.
This is 249$,
Elephant is 109$,
Pro L2 is 169€,
TD6 is 50€,
AOM is 200$
DMG Limitless is 210€.
even whole Ozone 9 suite is 250€.
I do like the neomorphic skin tho
I would also add (for those thinking on saving some $$) to look at the excellent Toneboosters Barricade ($39), Boz Big Clipper (many times on sale throughout the year at $29) and even when it's old, PSP Xenon (I'm sure you can find it used here) is a great one as well.
Or wait for November and buy the PA for $39 minus someone's $25 voucher. 8)

Regarding limiters, in general, I also highly recommend reading this article by one of our forum members (it may seem several old but they add some info every now and then)
https://www.saintpid.se/en/isp-true-peak-limiters-test/
“In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.”

KVRian
1006 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:42 am

Kazi7 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:12 am
Those of you who mention Ozone as being a good limiter: which limiter algo are you talking about? I used the Elements version which has IRC I and IRC II modes. I must say I'm not a big fan (Donald Trump voice).
I let Ozone decide by using the auto feature first, then click around to hear the difference and maybe choose something different.

Keep in mind, as I understand it, the algos are numbered by their age of release. So the older algos are 1 and 2.

I normally try to stay on algos 3 & 4, not only because they are more recent but because those offer variety of character from the dropdown.
Last edited by jochicago on Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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