Why you left Bitwig?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
7001 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:20 am

Yes, interestingly Studio One was created by former Steinberg developers and Bitwig (to get back on topic ;-)) by former Ableton developers. Both sets of Dev's wanted to start with a new code base and had their own vision of how the work flow could be improved. It's cool that we have so much choice!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Grove Boxes + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRist
465 posts since 2 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:10 pm

SLiC wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:20 am
Yes, interestingly Studio One was created by former Steinberg developers and Bitwig (to get back on topic ;-)) by former Ableton developers. Both sets of Dev's wanted to start with a new code base and had their own vision of how the work flow could be improved. It's cool that we have so much choice!
+1
While Steinberg and Ableton refused to improve the workflow, Studio One and Bitwig got attention with that. Studio One especially is spot on what Cubase would have been if they had paid attention to user requests and made the easiest workflow their priority.

User avatar
KVRAF
3206 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:12 pm

apoclypse wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:41 am
machinesworking wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:32 pm
EnGee wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:37 pm
S1 makes sense because I come from mostly Cubase background.
I've never really understood why people choose Studio One over Cubase.
Cubase is IMO part of the big three old school more weird features than you can use DAWs: Logic, Digital Performer, and Cubase all offer more features than you can possibly need. Studio One seems like to me a Ableton-ized version of Cubase.
If features were all that mattered everyone would be using Reaper. The way S1 works is what draw people to it. It's workflow really can't be beat, especially in comparison to Cubase. Also the big three as you put it, are old, the doesn't necessarily make them better. Like you said more features than you can use. There are so many features in Logic that people don't even know what the DAW can do. Half the time you used to see feature requests on the Logic Pro forums only for someone to chime in that Logic already does that. I'm sure Cubase has the same issue.


I wouldn't call it an Ableton-ized Cubase exactly, more like a Logic-ized Cubase.
That makes sense. Logic has become more user friendly over the years, more accessible. I’m just more the type to use DP or Reaper along with Bitwig, rather than the more middle ground DAWs, so my lack of understanding on Studio Ones popularity is subjective for sure.

KVRAF
3178 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:45 am

MuzikFreq wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:38 pm
The modulation of bitwig really is an amazing feature as it saves a ton of money as you can make the tools you need or want and can experiment. Polygrid and fxgrid further expands on that as well.
not the modulation is the big thing but the stackable per-note effects inside FXGrid, mainly can built with synth them inside a track using any source(can be VSTi or BWS own devices)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsH-4pCFwg8

don't know other DAW which can do this but BWS isn't a DAW mainly a synth with DAW like functions :D
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

lpr
KVRist
148 posts since 28 Dec, 2016

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:45 pm

Extremely glitchy audio which I didn't experience in Ableton nor FL Studio. I also wasn't a fan of the upgrade scheme. I bought it Before the change in yearly upgrades. So I jumped ship.

User avatar
KVRist
254 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:53 pm

lpr wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:45 pm
Extremely glitchy audio which I didn't experience in Ableton nor FL Studio. I also wasn't a fan of the upgrade scheme. I bought it Before the change in yearly upgrades. So I jumped ship.
At what audio settings were you using?

KVRAF
1682 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:07 am

antic604 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:40 am
machinesworking wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:32 pm
I've never really understood why people choose Studio One over Cubase...
My personal reasons (of what Cubase does "wrong"):
- terrible workflow for adding automation
- even worse workflow for mapping MIDI controller to VST parameters
- notes in piano roll are drawn "between" keys (it's hella confusing)
- mixer wastes a lot more screen space to achieve the same functionality
- no native signal splitter & no visual device chaining
- still doesn't support high-DPI (other than 200%) screens properly
- doesn't really work with touchpad gestures
- feels like it's hanging together by a piece of string & some spit
- dongle (yeah, hopefully not for long)

They're probably trivial, but HUGE for me :shrug:
things seem always personal, disclaimer; don't own studio one, never demoed it, so, can't compare it.

- like the automation in cubase!!
- don't use midi mapping and if i do, quick controls, quick and easy.
- don't know exactly what you mean
- like the mixer! big yes! great!
- agree, no signal splitter or device chaining. perhaps the 'new' sidechaining feature is a step towards it. but i don't really miss it. (yes, because i use 5 DAW's...)
- can't comment on that, i see only the reactions, that it doesn't work well. don't have a 4K screen.. or do any scaling..
- touchpad gestures? mmmmh, yes i use and old MCU (2003 version) and a panaroma p1 and a sl 49 mk ii. so not that important to me.
- rock solid, in my case. and i am very used to cubase, so for me it feels quite natural. the workflow i like.
- do like the dongle. (one of the few). (that you have led, that slowly changes in brightness, is feeling like you really have it, haha.)

but these aren't trivial things, workflow is very important. i have been using cubase for many years, my first DAW. so that gives also a bias.

never will leave bitwig, like the PolyGrid, and other stuff. and the touchscreen capabilities!
i have more problems with stability, or had, with bitwig. also very focused DAW. automation quite good, by the way (better than in ableton, but that is because always do it wrong, so i made notes.. so automation has become better for me in ableton). and ableton and bitwig comparision, especially with the live 11 suite, don't have -for me- any merits anymore.

totally different sounddesign beasts.

and cubase is also for me a sounddesign beast. because, o well, i developed a workflow, that makes me experiment with it.

cubase can certainly be improved. no doubt. bitwig; also. ableton? yes, the MPE implementation.. but for me no problems yet. and the speed of loading devices in ableton. but i am used to it, because when loaded, o well, so nice to experiment in ableton.

or bitwig, or cubase, or reason (reaper i mainly use for sketches, making loops, render them use them in other DAW's...)
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

lpr
KVRist
148 posts since 28 Dec, 2016

Post Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:58 pm

MuzikFreq wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:53 pm
lpr wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:45 pm
Extremely glitchy audio which I didn't experience in Ableton nor FL Studio. I also wasn't a fan of the upgrade scheme. I bought it Before the change in yearly upgrades. So I jumped ship.
At what audio settings were you using?
Same on all the DAWs. I don’t like the workflow either. Not a fan of Lives either.

KVRist
30 posts since 11 Feb, 2021

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:47 am

I love Bitwig..... but after a few days of using the Push 2 with it....and then going back to Ableton....

The push 2 is just way too cool an instrument to jam with natively.... start a rave 4 one.

Of course I could treat treat Ableton as a bonus to the Push 2 jamming. Even then I would say the Push 2 is worth it, the Live 11 suite is just a bonus.

The desire to work with two DAWS is very small.....maybe in the future.

KVRian
517 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:58 am

One thing that doesn't get mentioned enough imo is that Bitwig only has global shuffle. No per track swing or at least groove templates. That kind of sucks.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

User avatar
KVRAF
8309 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:15 am

apoclypse wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:58 am
One thing that doesn't get mentioned enough imo is that Bitwig only has global shuffle. No per track swing or at least groove templates. That kind of sucks.
It isn't? It comes up every time someone asks about groove pool. Just this week I explained that 2 or 3 times over at Twitter or Reddit.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
1623 posts since 26 Aug, 2012

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:16 am

wha-tha-hell you on about?

User avatar
KVRAF
8309 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:28 am

Kinh wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:16 am
wha-tha-hell you on about?
Who are you talking to? Learn using Quote feature of the forum...
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
KVRAF
21325 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:48 am

- terrible workflow for adding automation
You have for me a kind of odd expectation based in another DAW.
On a small project I'll have several dozen parameters; on a 'normal' project for me, rather more dense and hundreds of parameters (also see: Templates. Track Archives, import track preset. Thought.)
Automation shows in a single list from VEP (per instance) which sees the exact name and conveys to Cubase (with two exceptions, one of which only needs a little help).
One could mention all the little things in DAWs that don't suit a personal expectation. Let's both be boring then:

- even worse workflow for mapping MIDI controller to VST parameters
Well, if this refers to the Quick or VST Controls, if one needs that very much one is fvcked I guess. They don't seem likely to lose this either. Any time I've chosen to look at it it was a drag.
fortunately I virtually never do, send MIDI data to instrument from Key Editor, instrument receives instructions and carries them out. I needed it the once because the controller was written very poorly and not kept up to date with OS or Cubase versions for years. Mapping should not even be necessary, I mean almost nothing I've used in 17, 18 years has needed it, the one thing was eminently replaceable. Actually with MIDI touchpad for zero dollars, as well as every other controller I've had.

- notes in piano roll are drawn "between" keys (it's hella confusing)
IDK what that means. The bars which represent notes sure appear to line up with piano keys at left in the display.

- mixer wastes a lot more screen space to achieve the same functionality
It can but that bit is hidable with a single click, you know. I rarely look at it, VE Pro is the mixer. I think they could do a thing like in VEP making strips half their width.

- no native signal splitter & no visual device chaining
Don't even know what that is, in my blissfully encyclopedic ignorance :D

- still doesn't support high-DPI (other than 200%) screens properly
Don't need it on my 3072 display at all. Windows issue too, who cares.

- doesn't really work with touchpad gestures
It does if you know how to set it up.

- feels like it's hanging together by a piece of string & some spit
you have a bad attitude :lol:

- dongle (yeah, hopefully not for long)

Vastly prefer having licenses on a key. Computer gone or dies, problems which can take a long time. Similar problems to losing the key (and if it breaks without our help breaking it both Steiny and VSL will replace) but with the key there is ZDT and immediate ass-saving.

User avatar
KVRAF
21325 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:06 am

the "maintenance" :scared: update Cubase Pro 11.0.10 is so botched for me I would for the first time in a decade be interested in something else; but I'm also very set in my ways and the implementations of warping the timeline in the DAWs which now do this show to be pretty much inferior (possible exception = Samplitude which is windows platform only, haven't looked at it).

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”