Have you guys Sonic Reality ever thought about selling individual sounds via download (iTunes meets eSoundz?)? Even though it might not be cost effective for the customer(since you can get massive amounts of sounds for a couple hundred bucks, or a healthy handful for a hundred), it would allow people to just get "that one sound" they wanted for just a few bucks.
Just a thought.
Buying individual sounds
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SometimesNothing SometimesNothing https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=34404
- KVRist
- 67 posts since 25 Jul, 2004
"If it's where the heart is, how come you're never home?"
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- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 18 Oct, 2004
Damn, I thought about this EXACT SAME THING yesterday, and I considered asking about it on this forum.
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Perhaps. Although I don't know that other companies that have done this are so successful. But, we have a large customerbase who would like it so you never know. We have thought about it. More than thought about it actually.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I really like going to a certain major competitor's site and seeing cheap one-sound downloads. I've even bought a few! It's a really tough marketing dilemna, though, I'd imagine... picture this:
I'm a hobbyist, and I'm looking for a nice piano sound, but I don't have a lot of money-- so I'm not necessarily looking at a PMI instrument. I go to esoundz and buy the Sonic Capsule for $99, which is still a better price-point, AND I get the value of all the other pianos on there. In the end, the Steinway patch that I really wanted sounds great, and I'm still happy.
On the other hand, I go to "Sonic Tic-Tacs(tm)" and see a Steinway Grand for $30. It's still not the ultimate piano; but as it turns out, it has 2 more sample layers and is roughly 3X the size in terms of MB (which isn't always an indicator of quality, but makes this hobbyist think "hmm....").
Either way, I'm still getting a great deal. If I'm the kind of guy who hoards sounds and wants versatility, I get the Capsule without even blinking. But if I'm the kind of guy who really just wanted a piano, maybe I'd get the Tic-Tac.
So the dilemna is--
What's the ratio of Capsule-type consumers to Tic-Tac type consumers?
AND, will the Tic-Tac guy say to himself, "Well shit, I just saved $60 compared to the other bargain, so I'm gonna get me one of those $30 drum kits." If he does, chances are he's an impulse consumer and will re-visit the site a few weeks later when he's realized that the $15 Saxophone seemed a real bargain.
The final part of the dilemna is-- at what price point does it become more profitable to sell individual sounds compared to sets? With tangible goods, the answer's a bit easier, but with digital property... well, the samples are already there, so nobody's losing any more money (beyond development and marketing costs) by including a batch of samples in a bundle. Too cheap, and it'd take too many individual sales to make the same real-dollar earnings. Too expensive and the whole enterprise wouldn't really fly.
I guess if you err on the side of too expensive (sorry for even putting this idea in your head!), the consumer will still have the option to buy the mega-deal to be found in the Capsules, so you're not really losing anything.
I dunno...
Forgive me for my random musings!
Greg
I'm a hobbyist, and I'm looking for a nice piano sound, but I don't have a lot of money-- so I'm not necessarily looking at a PMI instrument. I go to esoundz and buy the Sonic Capsule for $99, which is still a better price-point, AND I get the value of all the other pianos on there. In the end, the Steinway patch that I really wanted sounds great, and I'm still happy.
On the other hand, I go to "Sonic Tic-Tacs(tm)" and see a Steinway Grand for $30. It's still not the ultimate piano; but as it turns out, it has 2 more sample layers and is roughly 3X the size in terms of MB (which isn't always an indicator of quality, but makes this hobbyist think "hmm....").
Either way, I'm still getting a great deal. If I'm the kind of guy who hoards sounds and wants versatility, I get the Capsule without even blinking. But if I'm the kind of guy who really just wanted a piano, maybe I'd get the Tic-Tac.
So the dilemna is--
What's the ratio of Capsule-type consumers to Tic-Tac type consumers?
AND, will the Tic-Tac guy say to himself, "Well shit, I just saved $60 compared to the other bargain, so I'm gonna get me one of those $30 drum kits." If he does, chances are he's an impulse consumer and will re-visit the site a few weeks later when he's realized that the $15 Saxophone seemed a real bargain.
The final part of the dilemna is-- at what price point does it become more profitable to sell individual sounds compared to sets? With tangible goods, the answer's a bit easier, but with digital property... well, the samples are already there, so nobody's losing any more money (beyond development and marketing costs) by including a batch of samples in a bundle. Too cheap, and it'd take too many individual sales to make the same real-dollar earnings. Too expensive and the whole enterprise wouldn't really fly.
I guess if you err on the side of too expensive (sorry for even putting this idea in your head!), the consumer will still have the option to buy the mega-deal to be found in the Capsules, so you're not really losing anything.
I dunno...
Forgive me for my random musings!
Greg
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- KVRer
- 21 posts since 12 Nov, 2004 from Charlotte, NC but originally from Brooklyn, NY
I'd have to agree with you Lunch Money on the aspect of making more money by selling sounds as packets rather than singles. I guess it all depends on the person too. I started doing soundfonts and selling them recently and debated how to approach the marketing end of it. I've only been really selling them through my www.genycis.com site for a few months now, and I actually sell individual soundfonts for either $2.00 (unless otherwise stated), or I allow the person to make their own pack based on sound demos I have on my site for each soundfont.
I've done decent business so far, albeit I may not be making $199 per sound package, but I've made decent money so far considering what I'm dealing with, and I must say that the people that have bought are pretty pleased overall. Sure, there will always be a sound or sounds in ANY package that seems to be weak or not what you want, but that's with anything. But I'd say at least 90% of what I've sold has gotten good vibes and comments in return. I allow the customer to decide whether they want one or two, or fifteen or twenty. It all depends.
As you said you're a hobbyist, I'm a person who collects and tweaks sounds as much as that old man that collects stamps does. Since I make hiphop beats and lease those to rappers looking, it'd be only natural for me to make my own library to use, that of which I use for almost every track I've done so far. I enjoy it, and part of the drive that forced me to this was as you said, looking for sounds but not having alot of money to deal with, not to mention buying soundfonts in the past and being very disappointed with the "enhanced demo tracks" played on the page. For this reason and others, I started the soundfonts sales of my own, not to mention, that the demos I make to have people hear are done with the soundfont in raw format, so what you hear is what you get, unlike most other sites that add lots of effects to the demos and result in weak sounds when you buy it.
I'm not trying to toot my own horn for anything as I am still learning. Feel free to browse the site too if you want, no harm at all... and I have some pianos up as well, so it's all up to what you may be looking for. Incase you forgot the site, it's www.genycis.com. You can drop me an email with whatever you wish, whether comment, criticism (tasteful at least), or inquiry, at Genycis@aol.com. Happy hunting for the piano sound of your dreams.
It would be a big move if Sonic Reality started individual sound sales. I can never have too many VST's or sounds. ha ha. It'd be nice to see in the near future. Peace 2 All.
Genycis
I've done decent business so far, albeit I may not be making $199 per sound package, but I've made decent money so far considering what I'm dealing with, and I must say that the people that have bought are pretty pleased overall. Sure, there will always be a sound or sounds in ANY package that seems to be weak or not what you want, but that's with anything. But I'd say at least 90% of what I've sold has gotten good vibes and comments in return. I allow the customer to decide whether they want one or two, or fifteen or twenty. It all depends.
As you said you're a hobbyist, I'm a person who collects and tweaks sounds as much as that old man that collects stamps does. Since I make hiphop beats and lease those to rappers looking, it'd be only natural for me to make my own library to use, that of which I use for almost every track I've done so far. I enjoy it, and part of the drive that forced me to this was as you said, looking for sounds but not having alot of money to deal with, not to mention buying soundfonts in the past and being very disappointed with the "enhanced demo tracks" played on the page. For this reason and others, I started the soundfonts sales of my own, not to mention, that the demos I make to have people hear are done with the soundfont in raw format, so what you hear is what you get, unlike most other sites that add lots of effects to the demos and result in weak sounds when you buy it.
I'm not trying to toot my own horn for anything as I am still learning. Feel free to browse the site too if you want, no harm at all... and I have some pianos up as well, so it's all up to what you may be looking for. Incase you forgot the site, it's www.genycis.com. You can drop me an email with whatever you wish, whether comment, criticism (tasteful at least), or inquiry, at Genycis@aol.com. Happy hunting for the piano sound of your dreams.
It would be a big move if Sonic Reality started individual sound sales. I can never have too many VST's or sounds. ha ha. It'd be nice to see in the near future. Peace 2 All.
Genycis
Blazin' beats and high quality soundfonts!
http://www.genycis.com Beats
http://www.SoundsForBeats.com Soundfonts/WAVs
http://www.genycis.com Beats
http://www.SoundsForBeats.com Soundfonts/WAVs
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Good post, Genycis. Interesting to hear from someone who's actually in such a business. 
Greg
Greg
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- KVRian
- 735 posts since 13 Jun, 2003 from Shrewsbury, UK
Bad Idea...
I prefer the I pay for a bunch of sounds that I'll never use (like bass and guitar) as well all the ones I do fairly cheaply, the Squids and co give us free additional sounds like they have been doing.
If you can buy individual sounds, that would be less incentive on them giving them to us for free.
Rollasoc (posting mostly in jest)
http://www.hairthieves.com
I prefer the I pay for a bunch of sounds that I'll never use (like bass and guitar) as well all the ones I do fairly cheaply, the Squids and co give us free additional sounds like they have been doing.
If you can buy individual sounds, that would be less incentive on them giving them to us for free.
Rollasoc (posting mostly in jest)
http://www.hairthieves.com
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- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 18 Oct, 2004
I gotta admit, I like having a bunch of good sounds I'll never use. This morning I was pondering why that is, but I wasn't able to come up with an answer. 
I'd prefer to buy sounds in bundles, but it's still an interesting idea to sell singles. It'd probably be a lot cheaper to purchase capsules or sonic synth-type products, in the same way that it's often cheaper to buy a whole album rather than purchase all the songs one at a time.
I'd prefer to buy sounds in bundles, but it's still an interesting idea to sell singles. It'd probably be a lot cheaper to purchase capsules or sonic synth-type products, in the same way that it's often cheaper to buy a whole album rather than purchase all the songs one at a time.
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- KVRist
- 75 posts since 1 Nov, 2003 from Charlotte, NC - USA
Just another point to ponder ... I've listened to sounds in mp3 demo format that sounded like "just the thing" I was looking for, then bought a package containing that sound plus a whole lot more only to be disappointed in the actual sound I was trying to get in the first place. Sometimes mp3 demos can be misleading and until you actually get the sound into your sampler of choice you really don't know if it's exactly what you are looking for. It would be nice if you could "test drive" a sound before parting with your hard earned cash and I completely understand the legal and copyright issues involved there as well. So whatcha gonna do? I like the way SR & IK handles their packaging and I've never been disappointed. Even if the sound(s)I bought the package for turns out to be "not exactly what I wanted" I've always been very pleased with the rest of the package as a whole. I still find gems among the rocks. Just my two cents!
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- KVRer
- 21 posts since 12 Nov, 2004 from Charlotte, NC but originally from Brooklyn, NY
I totally understand your point Midinut... that's part of what I meant when I said I bought sounds from names that were known, only to be more disappointed than not. But then it pushed me to make my own, not to sell originally, but to use in my own beats. It was when people started to want to know where I got my sounds from that I started to release a few for people to test... and then it kicked off.midinut wrote:Just another point to ponder ... I've listened to sounds in mp3 demo format that sounded like "just the thing" I was looking for, then bought a package containing that sound plus a whole lot more only to be disappointed in the actual sound I was trying to get in the first place. Sometimes mp3 demos can be misleading and until you actually get the sound into your sampler of choice you really don't know if it's exactly what you are looking for. It would be nice if you could "test drive" a sound before parting with your hard earned cash and I completely understand the legal and copyright issues involved there as well. So whatcha gonna do? I like the way SR & IK handles their packaging and I've never been disappointed. Even if the sound(s)I bought the package for turns out to be "not exactly what I wanted" I've always been very pleased with the rest of the package as a whole. I still find gems among the rocks. Just my two cents!
I'm not trying to make $100 plus dollar synths or anything.. but affordable soundfonts that are pretty decent in quality to use. Honestly, I make them because I like to, and because I use them. I figured it'd be a bit of money to make if people are interested and pleased. My best comments come from most of my Synths and some of my pianos. I thought of the soundsites that I got jipped from and decided to do the singles or bundle packs and sell them how the person would want it. This is bringing me decent business because they like the idea of listening to the non-effects made mp3's that I have up on the site, and are pleased when the sound they buy sounds the way it does on the site. That's a main reason I don't use any compressions, FX, reverb, or anything on the demo beats on the site for my sounds. So, if you were to go to my site and listen to say, the "A La Grande Piano" soundfont, then that's how the piano sounds when you play it. I don't try to enhance, nor fake a person's ear into hearing something Philharmonic, when it's actually flat as hell. I let the person hear what I make without any plugins or effects or anything. I hate when soundsites "enhance" their melodies and tracks with nice full demos, only to disappoint you later on when you get it. That's why I dont' try to do that. Sonic Implants... a VERY BIG dissapointment to me when I bought one of their $100 sets (can't remember which one at the moment cuz it was a year ago). It had a great demo, BUT, when I got the sounds, they sounded monotone and flat. The demo sounded like an orchestrated genius. Ever since then, I've pushed myself to make sounds. If people like what I have to offer, then it's great... but if not, it's okay too. I can't please everyone of course, none of us can. ha ha.. just like you said, you find some gems in the rocks.. and the same rocks you find may be a gem to someone else as well. I definitely respect your views though and understand your point. I'm a keep tryin' to do what I can as well though. By the way, Sonic Reality and IK seem like two of the few decent soundsites... just wish it wasn't a rape to the wallet. ha ha. Peace.
Genycis
Blazin' beats and high quality soundfonts!
http://www.genycis.com Beats
http://www.SoundsForBeats.com Soundfonts/WAVs
http://www.genycis.com Beats
http://www.SoundsForBeats.com Soundfonts/WAVs
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- KVRer
- 21 posts since 12 Nov, 2004 from Charlotte, NC but originally from Brooklyn, NY
Thanx LunchMoney, I've been working with the sound thing for a few months now, mainly soundfonts because I know alot of people that look for them and find it hard to find good ones. Plus, it's mainly what I use when making my tracks in FL since it saves me the trouble of loading multiple WAV sounds just to acheive a decent piano. One piano sound on a WAV sampler sounds horrible when you stray away from the main sample a few notes in either direction, more so to higher octaves of course. I love making sounds though, whether to sell or just to be creative to use myself. So many plugins to use to change the effect completely. I assume you're in the sound biz too. Thanx for the comment. Peace.Lunch Money wrote:Good post, Genycis. Interesting to hear from someone who's actually in such a business.
Greg
Genycis
Blazin' beats and high quality soundfonts!
http://www.genycis.com Beats
http://www.SoundsForBeats.com Soundfonts/WAVs
http://www.genycis.com Beats
http://www.SoundsForBeats.com Soundfonts/WAVs
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
I like mp3 examples of soundsets because it tells me how good they can sound if you program them properly!
I think the main trouble in this whole thing is that very few people know how to program properly to make best use of the sounds they have.
You definitely need great sounds, but they'll still sound sub-standard if you don't know how to make use of them in your compositions.
I come up against this brick wall in my own compositions time and time again and although it's tempting to say that the sounds aren't good enough, I know that it's my own inadequacies that are causing my tunes to make the soundset look bad.
I wish I could just insert all of the great midi programming knowledge inside my brain a la Matrix and then produce gems from whatever soundset I happen to be using.
Caleb
I think the main trouble in this whole thing is that very few people know how to program properly to make best use of the sounds they have.
You definitely need great sounds, but they'll still sound sub-standard if you don't know how to make use of them in your compositions.
I come up against this brick wall in my own compositions time and time again and although it's tempting to say that the sounds aren't good enough, I know that it's my own inadequacies that are causing my tunes to make the soundset look bad.
I wish I could just insert all of the great midi programming knowledge inside my brain a la Matrix and then produce gems from whatever soundset I happen to be using.
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- KVRist
- 75 posts since 1 Nov, 2003 from Charlotte, NC - USA
Now there is a cool concept ... you're driving/walking/jogging/running/crawling down the road and an idea for a song comes. You hum to yourself and your brain captures it as MIDI data and now you can add tracks just using thoughts (commands) and try different styles, substitute different sounds on diffrent tracks. All while poking along minding your own business. When you get back to your studio, you download the data from your brain to your PC and notate it all. Sweet ... sign me up.
No wait, while I was mixing and jogging .. I got splattered by a garbage truck ... damn! Right up there with talking on the cell phone or putting on makeup while driving I suppose. Maybe not such a good idea. Now if you could get someone else to drive for you ... hmmm
No wait, while I was mixing and jogging .. I got splattered by a garbage truck ... damn! Right up there with talking on the cell phone or putting on makeup while driving I suppose. Maybe not such a good idea. Now if you could get someone else to drive for you ... hmmm
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Hmmm. This seems to be turning out to be a thread more appropriate on the KVR samples forum than in our company forum. I mean with talk about other sites for sounds and soundfonts etc. This is a sound developer's forum after all... not that I mind all that much but, well, I am not going to pop into the Wizoo forum and tell people to check out my sounds exactly. 
But, where this thread relates to us, I can say this. I like the idea of individual purchase sounds. Maybe some day we'll do it. Although our business model supports having more professional sounds in our archives than most sound companies have. We can do crazy things such as multiple workstation products and expanding lines of uniform price products in more formats from the same package than other products (like the Sonik Capsules). To do that we have to have fairly high overhead such as a large office filled with employees plus a fairly sizeable budget to travel around and record incredible musical instruments (many are from the personal collections of respected pro musicians) and all sorts of other high risk business moves.
Most of our products are sold in stores. You get incredible value for money with every SR product. If you think about what you get for a $49. refill or a $99 Sonik Capsule or even a $399. Sonik Synth 2 with 8 gigs and 5,000 sounds the VFM is hard to match... (that's $.08 a sound? ) especially when you consider the quality, diversity and usablity of the material (that missing spec that really matters the most). It takes YEARS and YEARS of sampling with access to top quality, rare and sought after instruments in top quality studios to have this.
So, we have to concentrate our efforts on where we can get our return and profit for such a large long time investment. Thankfully, people like to buy our products because they have this level of value for the money as well as more options to find the sounds you like the best (since sounds are so subjetive anyway). Granted if we were to sell something like Sonik Synth 2 piece by piece for $2 a sound I think there might be some business to be had! Maybe. But, let me ask you something. Would you rather pay $10,000 for Sonik Synth 2 (at $2 per sound) or $399? (even less with discounts from stores or upgrade/crossgrades).
To cut to the chase here though, I like the idea of both individual sound sales and collections. So, you never know.
But, where this thread relates to us, I can say this. I like the idea of individual purchase sounds. Maybe some day we'll do it. Although our business model supports having more professional sounds in our archives than most sound companies have. We can do crazy things such as multiple workstation products and expanding lines of uniform price products in more formats from the same package than other products (like the Sonik Capsules). To do that we have to have fairly high overhead such as a large office filled with employees plus a fairly sizeable budget to travel around and record incredible musical instruments (many are from the personal collections of respected pro musicians) and all sorts of other high risk business moves.
Most of our products are sold in stores. You get incredible value for money with every SR product. If you think about what you get for a $49. refill or a $99 Sonik Capsule or even a $399. Sonik Synth 2 with 8 gigs and 5,000 sounds the VFM is hard to match... (that's $.08 a sound? ) especially when you consider the quality, diversity and usablity of the material (that missing spec that really matters the most). It takes YEARS and YEARS of sampling with access to top quality, rare and sought after instruments in top quality studios to have this.
So, we have to concentrate our efforts on where we can get our return and profit for such a large long time investment. Thankfully, people like to buy our products because they have this level of value for the money as well as more options to find the sounds you like the best (since sounds are so subjetive anyway). Granted if we were to sell something like Sonik Synth 2 piece by piece for $2 a sound I think there might be some business to be had! Maybe. But, let me ask you something. Would you rather pay $10,000 for Sonik Synth 2 (at $2 per sound) or $399? (even less with discounts from stores or upgrade/crossgrades).
To cut to the chase here though, I like the idea of both individual sound sales and collections. So, you never know.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Squids,
I've never seen VFM like I have through Sonic Reality. You guys are top-notch, and you're the perfect salesman for the company.
Genycis--nope, I'm not in the industry at all. I can see why you would have made that conclusion, though. I'm just a teacher who pursues music in his downtime.
Greg
I've never seen VFM like I have through Sonic Reality.
You guys are top-notch, and you're the perfect salesman for the company. Genycis--nope, I'm not in the industry at all. I can see why you would have made that conclusion, though. I'm just a teacher who pursues music in his downtime.
Greg