Your opinion about Zebra 2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
Urs
u-he
25632 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:44 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:38 am
I would say it's mostly defined by the quality /state of the art of the recording equipment.
Ok, if that's "mostly" it, then it should still be possible to determine the smaller part in it, which the synthesiser plays. Otherwise we wouldn't need to discuss them, wouldn't you agree?

(which reminds me, in a previous discussion about a specific example it turned out that a large part was played by a certain type of compression, which some synthesisers had built-in while others - e.g. ours - hadn't)

KVRAF
6933 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:45 am

How about the oscillators and filters in Zebra 3? What can Urs tell us about them?
I believe this is the most interesting information the owners of Zebra 2 want to hear? Isn't it? :D
Cubase Pro 11, Studio One Pro v5, NI, Arturia, u-he, Synapse Audio, Kilohearts, Korg, Sugar Bytes, PA and others.
PC with Win10, MODX 6, KeyLab MK II, iTwo interface, ATOM, DT 990 Pro and HS7 monitors.

KVRAF
28114 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:46 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:44 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:38 am
I would say it's mostly defined by the quality /state of the art of the recording equipment.
Ok, if that's "mostly" it, then it should still be possible to determine the smaller part in it, which the synthesiser plays. Otherwise we wouldn't need to discuss them, wouldn't you agree?
I feel like the discussion is more about whether or not the differences in synths are big enough that they have an effect on the general sound (or specific sounds).

I wanted to ask earlier, but, why did Hans Zimmer want you to incorporate the Diva filters into Zebra? And the other stuff he asked for.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
25632 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:50 am

EnGee wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:45 am
How about the oscillators and filters in Zebra 3? What can Urs tell us about them?
I believe this is the most interesting information the owners of Zebra 2 want to hear? Isn't it? :D
I just admitted, I have absolutely no idea what role the oscillators play at all :oops:

I would actually pay someone to take the most bestest and most strongest, most modern examples of Supersaw sounds with any given synth, and then record that same sound again with all filters, all compressors, all envelopes, all reverbs switched off to unveil just the pure, raw sound of the oscillators that made those patches. I *am* dying to get that kind of example, well executed and withstanding the scrutiny of any forum audience. If that's possible.

KVRAF
28114 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:54 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:50 am
I would actually pay someone to take the most bestest and most strongest, most modern examples of Supersaw sounds with any given synth, and then record that same sound again with all filters, all compressors, all envelopes, all reverbs switched off to unveil just the pure, raw sound of the oscillators that made those patches. I *am* dying to get that kind of example, well executed and withstanding the scrutiny of any forum audience. If that's possible.
Funnily, I even wrote a few pages ago, that it's kinda pointless to post examples using the raw oscillators, without any filtering, and envelopes involved. Simply, because you most likely will never hear that in an actual track.

Just like with any other sound.

I also don't know what the point is. I think we all know well enough that it's the sum of the parts, and not the parts itself which make the final sound.

On the other hand, as I mentioned, the detuning, whether it's linear or non linear, and the way the synth implements stereo spread (some are massively wide, some are pretty narrow, Dune 1, for example) plays a part as well. So, yes, there's already stuff in the oscillators which can influence the final result. You know that all anyway.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
28114 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:59 am

Thinking about it, maybe the misunderstanding and confusion is caused by the term "supersaw". Well, at least I don't mean the single waveform with that. It's a sound for me. Like a bass sound. And, it also comes in pretty different varieties, just like a bass sound.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
6933 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:04 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:50 am
EnGee wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:45 am
How about the oscillators and filters in Zebra 3? What can Urs tell us about them?
I believe this is the most interesting information the owners of Zebra 2 want to hear? Isn't it? :D
I just admitted, I have absolutely no idea what role the oscillators play at all :oops:
Ok, so no new oscillators :| What about the filters? Other enhancements? I'm dying to have some info about Zebra 3 :hihi:

Forget about the SuperSaw! You did the Hive, that's enough! :clown:
Cubase Pro 11, Studio One Pro v5, NI, Arturia, u-he, Synapse Audio, Kilohearts, Korg, Sugar Bytes, PA and others.
PC with Win10, MODX 6, KeyLab MK II, iTwo interface, ATOM, DT 990 Pro and HS7 monitors.

KVRAF
5313 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:18 am

My take on the supersaw using that midi.
https://vocaroo.com/1bGcuLdNW4bZ
Guess the synth :) (it's not Zebra)
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... travels-ep

User avatar
Urs
u-he
25632 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:42 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:54 am
I also don't know what the point is.
The point is to take the discussion from the realm of metaphysical and subjective attribution to the realm of scientific and measurable objectiveness.

Please don't see this as any form of attack, but I have wasted months of my time trying to please the people who demand supersaw greatness. I have conducted hearing tests of any part of the chain. When I do this, the people who ask for supersaw have not been interested in taking part, just like they never provide the evidence I have asked or dismiss it as irrelevant, just like you did right now. To me it looks a little bit like what I mentioned a few posts back: People are happy to post examples of their favourite tools, but they also seem to like the myth behind it.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
25632 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:44 am

EnGee wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:04 am
Ok, so no new oscillators :|
No worries, the oscillators will be all new.

KVRAF
6933 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from NZ

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:54 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:44 am
EnGee wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:04 am
Ok, so no new oscillators :|
No worries, the oscillators will be all new.
:clap:
Thank you :hug:
Cubase Pro 11, Studio One Pro v5, NI, Arturia, u-he, Synapse Audio, Kilohearts, Korg, Sugar Bytes, PA and others.
PC with Win10, MODX 6, KeyLab MK II, iTwo interface, ATOM, DT 990 Pro and HS7 monitors.

KVRian
1253 posts since 28 Dec, 2007

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:59 am

Is there even such a thing as a "modern" supersaw? Last time I heard one was when Future Bass was a thing, but that was like 4 years ago...
Urs wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:42 am
Please don't see this as any form of attack, but I have wasted months of my time trying to please the people who demand supersaw greatness. I have conducted hearing tests of any part of the chain. When I do this, the people who ask for supersaw have not been interested in taking part, just like they never provide the evidence I have asked or dismiss it as irrelevant, just like you did right now. To me it looks a little bit like what I mentioned a few posts back: People are happy to post examples of their favourite tools, but they also seem to like the myth behind it.
Well, but doesn't Zebra2's supersaw sound kind of dull compared to that one Sylenth1 preset which happens to have a +15dB high-shelf eq boost? I'm hoping that Zebra3 will deliver... :hihi:

KVRAF
28114 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:17 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:42 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:54 am
I also don't know what the point is.
The point is to take the discussion from the realm of metaphysical and subjective attribution to the realm of scientific and measurable objectiveness.

Please don't see this as any form of attack, but I have wasted months of my time trying to please the people who demand supersaw greatness. I have conducted hearing tests of any part of the chain. When I do this, the people who ask for supersaw have not been interested in taking part, just like they never provide the evidence I have asked or dismiss it as irrelevant, just like you did right now.
I will dismiss it as irrelevant when I think it is irrelevant.

You say you have spend ("wasted"? Sound like a lost investment. :)) months of your time trying to please the people who demand supersaw greatness. I assume you mean the development of Hive in that case? Apart from that, of course, you only can develop in a direction that you think is the right direction. That doesn't mean that it has to be, in general, the right direction though.

So, I don't mean all that as a form of attack either. It's just I've read so many times here that the synth won't matter, and bla bla bla, and it's always the same kind of arguing, where people just don't seem to get that there are (sublte) differences in synths, which can make a lot of difference. Otherwise we could all just (extreme example) use Synth1, and live happily ever after. Well, no. That's not how it works, and not how humans work.

Just a few days ago, I read in some Youtube comments that a guy uses Diva exclusively, for everything. I congratulated him that that works for you, but, I also told him that there is a reason why most people (like me) don't have a single, but a dozen or more synths in their plugin folder, or in their "studio". That's because there are subtle differences between them, which can make a lot of difference for certain sounds. That's the experience I made, and, it's also my conviction, because, I also see that a lot of people say the same, and act the same.

Hope that explains my point of view a bit better. And, I really don't want to smack Zebra, or any other of your plugins. I think they're great for what they do, even though they haven't yet found a place in my plugin folder, simply because I'm very selective, and, if I don't find enough use for a plugin, I don't buy it, or, if I bought it, I will sell it. Like Diva, which I tried to like, but, I just couldn't get enough use for it. Doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it didn't work for me. Just like the supersaw in Zebra CM didn't work for me, back when I used it. That doesn't mean Hans Zimmer can't do great soundtracks with it...
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

User avatar
KVRian
1278 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:26 am

There are two options. Investigate why synths such as Rapid or Avenger can produce modern sounds when Zebra2 can’t, or keep on saying everything’s perfect and accept that people post demos nobody can come close using Zebra.

And please stop with that Sylenth1, it’s an overated synth. It was THE thing TEN years ago, time to update ! What then ? Massive ?? :lol:

Personally I’d suggest multiband compression/limiter (game changer !) and complex EQs for Zebra3. Would help a LOT !
Last edited by DJErmac on Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
25632 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:28 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:17 am
I will dismiss it as irrelevant when I think it is irrelevant.
But what if they're relevant for me? To me, those examples that are being posted are completely irrelevant - because I'm no magician who magically knows which role envelopes, effects, filters play in the subjective attribution of their properties while people mostly speak of oscillators.
You say you have spend ("wasted"? Sound like a lost investment. :)) months of your time trying to please the people who demand supersaw greatness. I assume you mean the development of Hive in that case? Apart from that, of course, you only can develop in a direction that you think is the right direction. That doesn't mean that it has to be, in general, the right direction though.
I have actually wasted a lot of time trying to figure out what it is that makes Zebra "unsuited" for those supersaw sounds. I'm still at a loss here because, if Hive can do it, then surely so can Zebra. Or, if Zebra can't, it should be fairly easy to figure out what it is.

This is the thing, I have no idea what Hive does better than Zebra, apart from "crisp" not being the default setting in Zebra and pan spreading being gradual, thus requiring 2 oscillators panned opposite sides.

Return to “Instruments”