Your opinion about Zebra 2

[Urs]

There are two options. Investigate why synths such as Rapid or Avenger can produce modern sounds when Zebra2 can’t, or keep on saying everything’s perfect and accept that people post demos nobody can come close using Zebra.

This is what I want. This is what I've been talking about the whole time

For that, I don't need the synths. I just need audio examples. I don't even need to know which synth it is. All I need is a "salami reverse engineering" of the sound. That is, if we assume the patch is oscillators-filters/envelopes-vca/envelopes-reverb-compressor I need audio of the final patch, single note. Then compressor switched off. Then reverb. Then VCA envelope, then VCF envelope, Lastly, filter switched off for pure oscillator sound.

But then point is, I do have Serum, I do have Sylenth. I could easily afford to buy Rapid or Avenger. But I still wouldn't know which preset to go by.

(and yes, this gets slightly off topic, I'd be happy to discuss this in our company forum. Again, in my defense, I have at no point said that "Zebra can do it, if you can't you're too dumb". I am however curious to learn what it is that Zebra can't do, and I don't feel that the statements made were really telling any of us that.)

[DJErmac]

Sincerely, all the ”open wide” sound relies on multiband compression options and unlimited EQ stacking possibilities. Then, you should see the oscillators modulation capabilities. These are only options : you can please everyone easily.

[LeVzi]

I genuinely don't remember now, but when I had Zebra, and I was writing Hardcore, the leads (SSaws) just didn't fit right, never had that sheen or fullness compared to Sylenth, which I had at the time or Alchemy which took over , this was some years ago mind, ACE hadn't long arrived.

Now the reason maybe the filters or whatever, but Zebra did not sound as I expected. I didn't get rid on that alone, I just found programming it didn't suit my way of working. I will add, I absolutely loath the GUI, i've no idea if it's changed but I cannot stand it as it was.

Zebra does do SSaws, no one denies that , and IIRC someone did a test of a lot of synths doing SSaws on here, was quite interesting, but for EDM you need a certain style a certain feel, and it simply didn't have it in its raw format. I've never heard HIVE so I can't comment. But as I said this was some time ago, and tbh my experience with synths is a lot wider now so maybe I was at fault but for now, I stick to the ones I know best that are simply to program and get the results I need, especially for kicks, which not many synths are suited to.

[arkmabat]

dark zebra is the only zebra

[recursive one]

Urs, would this example work? It doesn't have any compression or other external effects and the filter goes fully open near the end.

Ofc i won't say it's the bestest supersaw (I'm not much into EDM or commercial trance anyway) but the synth is one of those considered "gold standard".

My take on the supersaw using that midi.
https://vocaroo.com/1bGcuLdNW4bZ
Guess the synth (it's not Zebra)

[DJErmac]

Urs, would this example work? It doesn't have any compression or other external effects and the filter goes fully open near the end.

Ofc i won't say it's the bestest supersaw (I'm not much into EDM or commercial trance anyway) but the synth is one of those considered "gold standard".

My take on the supersaw using that midi.
https://vocaroo.com/1bGcuLdNW4bZ
Guess the synth (it's not Zebra)

Wouldn’t be usable in EDM as is. Too old fashioned.

[recursive one]

Urs, would this example work? It doesn't have any compression or other external effects and the filter goes fully open near the end.

Ofc i won't say it's the bestest supersaw (I'm not much into EDM or commercial trance anyway) but the synth is one of those considered "gold standard".

My take on the supersaw using that midi.
https://vocaroo.com/1bGcuLdNW4bZ
Guess the synth (it's not Zebra)

Wouldn’t be usable in EDM. Too old fashioned.

Ah, ok.
How would you change it to be less old fashioned?

Tbh, i still like some classic uplifting trance stuff, like 2005-2010, but i have very little idea what modern EDM sounds like.

[DJErmac]

Needs more detune, and you’re good to go.

[Tj Shredder]

Ofc i won't say it's the bestest supersaw (I'm not much into EDM or commercial trance anyway) but the synth is one of those considered "gold standard".

My take on the supersaw using that midi.
https://vocaroo.com/1bGcuLdNW4bZ
Guess the synth (it's not Zebra)

Wouldn’t be usable in EDM as is. Too old fashioned.

EDM is old fashioned by definition...

[Urs]

I genuinely don't remember now, but when I had Zebra, and I was writing Hardcore, the leads (SSaws) just didn't fit right, never had that sheen or fullness compared to Sylenth, which I had at the time or Alchemy which took over , this was some years ago mind, ACE hadn't long arrived.

Back in that time there were two features aka flaws in Zebra which may have been responsible:

1. the oscillators have a high frequency role-off towards 20kHz. This was a choice I made, but it may be responsible for "lack of sheen" for people who have immaculate hearing beyond 17kHz.

This was addressed many years ago by adding the "crisp" render option to the oscillators. It removes the high frequency roll-off, such that the raw sawtooth waveform has an identical spectrum to all physically perfect versions of it that I assume are present in other synthesisers.

2. Zebra's built-in wavetable format has only 128 points. That concerns the "GeoBlend" and "SpectroBlend" waveform drawing tools, it does *not* concern the curve-based "GeoMorph" or "SpectroMorph" ones. Because there is only a limited number of overtones possible, bass frequencies will again have a roll-off if these waveforms are used without other enhancements.

Therefore, to my best knowledge, using the default GeoMorph sawtooth and switching the renderer from "soft" to "crisp" should have addressed the original issue from 10+ years ago.

(another issue is of course that lowpass filters also remove high frequency content even if cutoff is fully open. But as Zebra handles this pretty much the same way as Sylenth did back then, I'd rule this out as the culprit)

[vurt]

Urs, would this example work? It doesn't have any compression or other external effects and the filter goes fully open near the end.

Ofc i won't say it's the bestest supersaw (I'm not much into EDM or commercial trance anyway) but the synth is one of those considered "gold standard".

My take on the supersaw using that midi.
https://vocaroo.com/1bGcuLdNW4bZ
Guess the synth (it's not Zebra)

Wouldn’t be usable in EDM. Too old fashioned.

Ah, ok.
How would you change it to be less old fashioned?

Tbh, i still like some classic uplifting trance stuff, like 2005-2010, but i have very little idea what modern EDM sounds like.

sucks getting old doesn't it

it's fine until some scallywag, comes along and tells you youre "old fashioned"
but last week i was cool as f**k! i even had a t-shirt, now im a has been

[Urs]

Urs, would this example work?

That's very chord. I was hoping for single note / single pitch. It still sounds somewhat compressy to me, but that may be my laptop speaker (weekend -> sofa).

[LeVzi]

I genuinely don't remember now, but when I had Zebra, and I was writing Hardcore, the leads (SSaws) just didn't fit right, never had that sheen or fullness compared to Sylenth, which I had at the time or Alchemy which took over , this was some years ago mind, ACE hadn't long arrived.

Back in that time there were two features aka flaws in Zebra which may have been responsible:

1. the oscillators have a high frequency role-off towards 20kHz. This was a choice I made, but it may be responsible for "lack of sheen" for people who have immaculate hearing beyond 17kHz.

This was addressed many years ago by adding the "crisp" render option to the oscillators. It removes the high frequency roll-off, such that the raw sawtooth waveform has an identical spectrum to all physically perfect versions of it that I assume are present in other synthesisers.

2. Zebra's built-in wavetable format has only 128 points. That concerns the "GeoBlend" and "SpectroBlend" waveform drawing tools, it does *not* concern the curve-based "GeoMorph" or "SpectroMorph" ones. Because there is only a limited number of overtones possible, bass frequencies will again have a roll-off if these waveforms are used without other enhancements.

Therefore, to my best knowledge, using the default GeoMorph sawtooth and switching the renderer from "soft" to "crisp" should have addressed the original issue from 10+ years ago.

(another issue is of course that lowpass filters also remove high frequency content even if cutoff is fully open. But as Zebra handles this pretty much the same way as Sylenth did back then, I'd rule this out as the culprit)

Well there you go, this could have been the reason as to why I couldn't seem to get it as I wanted it. But tbh I don't even remember how I made the patches at the time. I can't remember what I did in onepingonly yesterday

These days I would have a better understanding of everything anyway, I wasn't vastly experienced with synths , im still not, but i'm definitely more understanding of what i'm trying to achieve and how to get there.

And in all honesty, I sincerely doubt you had Frenchcore kicks or Rawstyle leads etc etc etc in mind when you made it. Things like Rob Papens RAW kick is better suited (if not harder to get your head around) so its horses for courses tbh.

But its actually kinda cool that the potential reasons I couldn't get those leads to shine are explainable and these days sorted out. Thanks for the explanation.

[recursive one]

Urs, would this example work?

That's very chord. I was hoping for single note / single pitch. It still sounds somewhat compressy to me, but that may be my laptop speaker (weekend -> sofa).

I used that midi, can make single notes (but the expert already said it was "too old-fashioned" sound )

No, there's no compression whatsoever, unless the synth does it under the hood.

[DJErmac]

Ofc i won't say it's the bestest supersaw (I'm not much into EDM or commercial trance anyway) but the synth is one of those considered "gold standard".

My take on the supersaw using that midi.
https://vocaroo.com/1bGcuLdNW4bZ
Guess the synth (it's not Zebra)

Wouldn’t be usable in EDM as is. Too old fashioned.

EDM is old fashioned by definition...

Could you name a more modern genre of music making heavy usage of synthesizers (yes, that’s why we’re here) please ? Who do you make new synths for ? Hard rockers ?