routing in Cubase: How can I use an external synth plugin as a kind of "carrier" source for the VST "Performant"?

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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:49 pm

I hope this is the right category to pose this kind of request.

I'd like to use the plugin "Performant", which is a free formant filter vst that allows for an external synth input. Here's the link for references:

https://plugins4free.com/plugin/3012/

However, I don't know how to set this up in Cubase so that I could use it in combination with an external synth input and I couldn't find any information on this.
There's also no manual to the plugin.

I'd be happy for a step-by-step guide if anyone knows how to set this up in Cubase.
What I'd like to do is send the audio output from a synth plugin (like synth1, Sylenth etc.) to this formant filter plugin "Performant" so I could use Performant as an external formant filter to modulate the synth sound I'd like to send in (though Performant can ALSO be used as a synth itself because it also comes with its own carrier synth built in. Still I'd like to use external synths as carrier input signals and let Performant modulate them and send out the modulated sound.).

I cannot load Performant as an fx plugin for the audio inserts. It can only be loaded as a vst instrument which may be why it is a bit difficult to set this up.
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KVRAF
21318 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:18 pm

if the instrument has a sidechain input Cubase can use it to process a synth channel or audio channel. Inspector in the synth's VST Instrument channel has to see that sidechain input as target, as though an output, like the master out or a group bus. Description in the manual under Side Chain input for VST Instruments. This is Cubase Pro btw, lighter versions may not do.

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269 posts since 4 Dec, 2019

Post Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:51 pm

Yeah, this is an additional problem. The plugin doesn't come with the sidechain function as far as I can see though I do use Cubase Pro, but the plugin does somehow allow for an external synth input nevertheless. I just don't know how to route it in without that sidechaining function, then. Good that you mention it! There's no sidechaining. The button just won't appear on the vst plugin in Cubase, though it's a 64 bit plugin.
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Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:16 am

:help:
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KVRAF
21318 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:13 pm

I don't think it's doable otherwise

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Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:46 pm

It's a crux! If there's a way it MUST be something people don't often do so hardly anyone could tell me. I'm hoping for a Cubase specialist to read this.
It's a very special case indeed.

Still, I mean why would the person(s) who designed the program include a button that says "ext in".
If I push it, the built-in synth switches off so the program kind of already challenges me to find a special way of routing some external synth to it and that would be just the right thing if I could do it. Nice sound effects and new possibilities might result from that. Maybe it's only possible in other DAWs which would be unfortunate, but there must be some sense to that button?

Can I put a VST instrument AS an effect channel somehow or make it become the same somehow? I mean, effect channels appear as possible output channels that I could route a synth to and in a way I would like to use the VST as an effect filter... I'm trying to think of the most creative ways already.

It's also not possible to simply convert a vst2 or vst1 to a vst3 so that the sidechain button would appear, so I don't think I could make that button appear. I think one would have to reprogram the whole plugin for that but I'm also not 100% sure about this...
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KVRAF
21318 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:25 pm

so the Inspector is not seeing 'ext in' as an output?

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Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:03 pm

Yes, "ext in" is a button on the plugin. If i push it, the internal synth from the plugin VST switches off as if it would now wait for an external input signal (e. g. from Vital or Serum). But the inspector or Cubase does not see it as an input source I could route another VST synth to and I don't know how to tell Cubase that it is meant to be so. So, as you say, there is no output option to the "ext in" for the track I have the synth (e. g. Vital) on. I would e. g. like to route the sound output signal from Vital to the "ext in" from PerFormant.

Look, this is the button. I highlighted it in red:
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KVRian
1147 posts since 9 Jan, 2013 from morf

Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:19 pm

http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/0 ... 1.html?m=1
I’m guessing it’s the same type of setup as a vocoder?

If not, try full buckets modulair , it has an input and formant oscillator
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Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:43 pm

Another good idea, but unfortunately this is not so. I have been through vocoders and they were a real fatiguing topic themselves. They are set up differently.
Either they can be loaded as insert effects on top of a group channel that itself consists of a modulator and carrier track or they come as vsts that have the sidechaining function built in but both is not the case here.
I'd still like to use this plugin, though. It seems promising and it might somehow work as the programmers intended it to work. The question is just: how?
Why does software always have to be so unnecessarily complicated? Why not just drag and drop to make such a simple connection from input to output?... :bang:
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KVRAF
3230 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:00 pm

Google "cubase quad channel sidechain" and the tedious process will be explained. For some reason they never allowed for vst2.x plugins to receive sidechains without playing with the "vst connection" dialog. So if it isn't a vst3 plugin you will have to do a whole dumb process. I bought BC patchwork mainly to be able to wrap vst 2.x plugins in a vst 3 plugin so I could use sidechaining easily. If you don't have a vst 3 wrapper you will have to make a quad group with two stereo sub groups and then route via sends to sidechain properly.
Good luck
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Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:06 pm

Wow, I hope this will work! At least this is the first hint that might get me somewhere. Thanks!
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KVRian
1147 posts since 9 Jan, 2013 from morf

Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:07 pm

Side chain option is called quadra side chain
That’s the only method I remember in Steinberg products

viewtopic.php?t=439627
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Post Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:51 pm

Aargh, it won't work. This idea in the end turns out to only work for insert effect plugins again. It's for the older Cubase versions and you can add the sidechain function to older insert effect plugins with this method, but still you'd have to use some insert effect plugin for this in the first place - whereas Performant is a VST that can function as an effect plugin on top of it. So I'm left with the same basic problem and the quadro option only works for some older vocoder plugins again.
Is there a free wrapper that can change the vst to a vst3 with the side chaining function?
You mentioned Blue Cat Patchwork but it's not free.
The wrapper seems the only thing left that might work now.

Another rather abstruse idea that came to my mind if there is no such wrapper:
I might create a virtual input signal from the other (Vital or Serum's) vst output signal, maybe with the banana voicemeter program, and reroute it into Cubase.
So I might e. g. open Cubase 2 times, send out the vst signal (from, say, Serum) I want to put into Perfomant to banana from the first Cubase instance and send this signal back in to the 2nd Cubase program, this time as a virtually created external vst input signal. The second Cubase program then treats it like an external input signal as if it were a guitar or some hardware synth or something and then I might finally be able to select it as an input signal for Performant...

But this is getting more and more awkward. A free wrapper which creates the sidechain input function on Performant would be better (for the CPU - or I'd have to use my 2nd laptop and connect it...) but I couldn't find any online.

Does this exist at all? Can you give me the dl link if it does?
Nothing can be better than liberty and free time to spend as you choose. Let's give those modern slaveholders the bum's rush!

KVRian
1147 posts since 9 Jan, 2013 from morf

Post Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:34 pm

https://github.com/kushview/Element
Was free, not sure now

Might work ?

Or
Mux modular vst, currently available for use
image line minihost modular if you can sign up for it still?
Last edited by Eauson on Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Man is least himself when he talks in the first person. Give him a mask, and he'll show you his true face

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