Disadvantages of DAWs in comparison to others

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
12699 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:08 am

machinesworking wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:39 am
ghettosynth wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:17 am
mdstudio wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:04 am
I use REAPER now, and it's pretty much the perfect DAW
That pretty much sums it up right there.
Just to jab at you a bit, comping sucks ass in Reaper.
No it doesn't. It's great!

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KVRAF
21321 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:08 am

<gets confused when the switch in time signatures happens>
"It's these types of things that make a thread like this valuable,"

there ya go

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KVRAF
21321 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:16 am

I kid about REAPER. But seriously, if you have to import scripts - have to research and find scripts - to do things I'm doing the DAW offers all by itself and has done perfectly for two decades it meets what definition of superior? I couldn't support that, it seems chumplike to me, sorry.

You have to come up with a fallacious argument. 'No! The scripts thing and all of this customization is so beautiful that we should all want to.' round in circles we go

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KVRAF
3204 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:26 am

jancivil wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:16 am
I kid about REAPER. But seriously, if you have to import scripts - have to research and find scripts - to do things I'm doing the DAW offers all by itself and has done perfectly for two decades it meets what definition of superior? I couldn't support that, it seems chumplike to me, sorry.
To be fair, Reapers strength is it's ultra configurability, and it's also it's weakness. I've got it set up the way I want to work with it, but it took probably a year of tweaking. That sets up the fun thing of having a super valuable user configuration, that would kill you to lose.

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KVRAF
21321 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:28 am

to be fair, they have implemented certain things other development has quite missed. that I would personally enjoy having, meaning actually less effort on my part.

but it's the tropes here, getting on my nerves when I'm bored

I could copy and paste one of the REAPER workarounds to get the multiple ports out of VE Pro, it was no kidding hilarious to read it's so tortured. I'm sure it's not the only one but it was the funniest. I mean there's no way on earth I woulda figured that out or anything in the vicinity. It involved making a feedback loop between MIDI and Audio, only possible probably in REAPER.

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KVRAF
3204 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:46 am

jancivil wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:28 am
to be fair, they have implemented certain things other development has quite missed. that I would personally enjoy having, meaning actually less effort on my part.

but it's the tropes here, getting on my nerves when I'm bored

I could copy and paste one of the REAPER workarounds to get the multiple ports out of VE Pro, it was no kidding hilarious to read it's so tortured. I'm sure it's not the only one but it was the funniest. I mean there's no way on earth I woulda figured that out or anything in the vicinity. It involved making a feedback loop between MIDI and Audio, only possible probably in REAPER.
sounds about right. :lol: Logic has a similar not even near traditional signal path way of dealing with multi output AUi's that uses more CPU than you might want with VEP, so the solution is wiring in the Environment traditional straight MIDI tracks to a VEP instance to save on CPU etc. I really do appreciate some of the basic strengths of having a non traditional way of doing this, in the sense that 16 outs with MIDI and Aux tracks is 32 tracks in DP, and only 16 in Logic, but when it comes to VEP it's the exact opposite, Logic is a mess because it's solution breaks down past medium sized projects.

I haven't used Cubase enough to know but it seems like it keeps a more traditional architecture when it comes to routing and bussing like DP does, and I appreciate that when in the above case, the cool new workaround goes off into the weeds and becomes the problem not the solution.

KVRist
164 posts since 11 Dec, 2018

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:49 am

jancivil wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:45 am
"it's pretty much the perfect DAW"
Well, if you look at my post, I said the perfect DAW for me. :)
jancivil wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:16 am
If you have to import scripts - have to research and find scripts - to do things I'm doing the DAW offers all by itself and has done perfectly for two decades it meets what definition of superior? I couldn't support that, it seems chumplike to me, sorry.
Here's my thought process - When I notice that I do something repetitively, I think about how I could streamline that process.

For example, I may imagine a button on the MIDI toolbar that does some MIDI manipulation. Or a button on the main toolbar that would allow me to perform a custom zoom, some custom automation, custom render/bounce of the MIDI to audio in place as a separate take on the same track and activate that take or chop up the audio at transients and feed the chops into a sampler or really whatever random thing I can think of that can be done in the DAW manually.

Most of the time, REAPER makes that possible. That is just mind blowing to me.

If you're proficient at another DAW, maybe you have some key commands or track templates or some other alternative workflow that you've internalized that doesn't make you context shift back and forth between the creative and engineering mindset, and that's ok too.
machinesworking wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:26 am
To be fair, Reapers strength is it's ultra configurability, and it's also it's weakness. I've got it set up the way I want to work with it, but it took probably a year of tweaking. That sets up the fun thing of having a super valuable user configuration, that would kill you to lose.
Yes, I exported the configuration from the preferences and backed it up just in case.

I get the strength/weakness thing as well and I agree.

KVRAF
3007 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:52 am

A question for the hardcore Reaper users.

I love it but am having a midi issue, I use mostly external synths and when I use midi clock it races for about 2 bars before the timing catches up.

Do you know how to fix this?

My other DAWs don’t have this so I know it’s a Reaper issue. It’s stopping me from switching permanently to it, and I want to...

KVRist
164 posts since 11 Dec, 2018

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:58 am

simmo75 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:52 am
A question for the hardcore Reaper users.

I love it but am having a midi issue, I use mostly external synths and when I use midi clock it races for about 2 bars before the timing catches up.

Do you know how to fix this?

My other DAWs don’t have this so I know it’s a Reaper issue. It’s stopping me from switching permanently to it, and I want to...
Hmm I personally don't use external synths and the fact that it catches up makes it sound like a bug, but have you tried messing with the plugin delay compensation (PDC) settings? Not sure if that's helpful. Maybe somebody else can chime in.

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KVRAF
3204 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Tue May 04, 2021 12:01 pm

mdstudio wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:49 am
For example, I may imagine a button on the MIDI toolbar that does some MIDI manipulation. Or a button on the main toolbar that would allow me to perform a custom zoom, some custom automation, custom render/bounce of the MIDI to audio in place as a separate take on the same track and activate that take or chop up the audio at transients and feed the chops into a sampler or really whatever random thing I can think of that can be done in the DAW manually.
I don't know of any built in sampler in Reaper that chops up audio on transients and hosts more than one sample really. It's a shortcoming in Reaper IMO, every DAW should have a decent built in multi sampler. (to be fair neither does DP, and it's a shortcoming there too.)

KVRist
164 posts since 11 Dec, 2018

Post Tue May 04, 2021 12:09 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:01 pm
I don't know of any built in sampler in Reaper that chops up audio on transients and hosts more than one sample really. It's a shortcoming in Reaper IMO, every DAW should have a decent built in multi sampler. (to be fair neither does DP, and it's a shortcoming there too.)
Yeah, it's a bit clunky, but you can initialize multiple RS5k instances on a track, one for each sample. You can combine "Xenakios/SWS: Split items at transients" and "mpl_Export selected items to RS5k instances on selected track (drum mode)" and add a button or key command that triggers both those actions in sequence.

There are good free third party samplers like Sitala, but I don't know if you can feed samples to it programatically.

(Apologies if we derailing the thread too much)

KVRAF
3007 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Tue May 04, 2021 12:13 pm

mdstudio wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:58 am
simmo75 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:52 am
A question for the hardcore Reaper users.

I love it but am having a midi issue, I use mostly external synths and when I use midi clock it races for about 2 bars before the timing catches up.

Do you know how to fix this?

My other DAWs don’t have this so I know it’s a Reaper issue. It’s stopping me from switching permanently to it, and I want to...
Hmm I personally don't use external synths and the fact that it catches up makes it sound like a bug, but have you tried messing with the plugin delay compensation (PDC) settings? Not sure if that's helpful. Maybe somebody else can chime in.
Thanks for your reply, yes I’ve tried that.

It must be a bug, it’s a shame because I love how flexible it is.

I think it’s not geared towards midi based work, more for audio.

KVRAF
12699 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Tue May 04, 2021 12:17 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:26 am
To be fair, Reapers strength is it's ultra configurability, and it's also it's weakness. I've got it set up the way I want to work with it, but it took probably a year of tweaking. That sets up the fun thing of having a super valuable user configuration, that would kill you to lose.
Yeah, no. This is often repeated but it's not true for everyone. I don't really think about preserving any setup. I just install it factory fresh on any machine that I need it on. The strength of Reaper is exactly that it isn't the DAW that other people like and that Justin keeps it that way by not listening to people who complain about it in threads like these.

What you perceive as loyalty is just a recognition that Reaper is unique in how it works and so there really aren't other choices for many Reaper users. The things that other people complain about, e.g., scripting, are the things that make it powerful and unique. We don't want it changed because then we won't have a DAW that works this way.

KVRAF
12699 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Tue May 04, 2021 12:34 pm

simmo75 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:52 am
A question for the hardcore Reaper users.

I love it but am having a midi issue, I use mostly external synths and when I use midi clock it races for about 2 bars before the timing catches up.

Do you know how to fix this?

My other DAWs don’t have this so I know it’s a Reaper issue. It’s stopping me from switching permanently to it, and I want to...
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=20962

KVRAF
28116 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue May 04, 2021 12:35 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:17 pm
machinesworking wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:26 am
To be fair, Reapers strength is it's ultra configurability, and it's also it's weakness. I've got it set up the way I want to work with it, but it took probably a year of tweaking. That sets up the fun thing of having a super valuable user configuration, that would kill you to lose.
Yeah, no. This is often repeated but it's not true for everyone. I don't really think about preserving any setup. I just install it factory fresh on any machine that I need it on. The strength of Reaper is exactly that it isn't the DAW that other people like and that Justin keeps it that way by not listening to people who complain about it in threads like these.

What you perceive as loyalty is just a recognition that Reaper is unique in how it works and so there really aren't other choices for many Reaper users. The things that other people complain about, e.g., scripting, are the things that make it powerful and unique. We don't want it changed because then we won't have a DAW that works this way.
Which is fair enough. But, what you have to see is that that makes Reaper rather something for the people on the margins of society. The geeks, who need something like scripting, and who don't mind the butt ugly interface, or the gazillions of menu entries, and settings. And those who don't mind the barebone approach, without many DAW included plugins and content, and, IF there are included plugins, then they have a GUI which barely resemble more than non-GUI plugins.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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