Disadvantages of DAWs in comparison to others

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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KVRAF
3389 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:24 pm

dble
Last edited by machinesworking on Mon May 10, 2021 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
KVRAF
3389 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:24 pm

jancivil wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:53 pm
'the long term viability' is improved by breaking features in favor of idiotic features - double click to delete note, which was producersplained well enough to me, alright - not an argument I'm falling for in the least. They're going to go broke unless they pander as hard as they can to what to me coulda just been a stereotype (but not even a joke) of lameness... sure, ok, whatever :lol:

At this juncture I feel I cannot update it, I'm not going to be interested in the .5 for 99 bucks, not going to be looking at 12 should I live so long, their development can stall and 11.0.0 be as viable as it gets for me, because pragmatism.
^^ I completely understand, it's funny, because I've used Live since forever some producer style things do appeal to me, Clips in particular, it's why it would be difficult for me to think about Studio One, Reaper or Cubase as my only DAW. But in no way is it something I want to see come at the expense of other features. That's sort of happened with DP10, they introduced Clips and took away the old school looping feature, since it's not tied to Clips, which DP never had, it had free range unchecked MIDI from the beginning to the end of your song. They still allow both 'free range' MIDI and clips in the Sequence, the problem is they seemingly added in a new edit window for clips, but it only shows the piano roll for MIDI and a basic editor for audio. MIDI and audio in Clips can't use all the older advanced edit windows, no Drum, MIDI, Waveform, Score, or even Event editing is possible if the MIDI is in a Clip, and now Clips are the only way to loop MIDI and audio... yet you can't use the freaking Drum Editor if the MIDI is packed into a Clip. :dog: Even the phone tech support guy from MOTU flatly told me him and others wished they waited until the feature was actually finished before introducing it.

So yeah a lot of old school DP users are offended at Clips. We'll see, there's a new version on it's way at any time, but I'm certainly not using Clips much as it stands, and mostly just duplicating if I want something repeated.

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KVRAF
3389 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:10 pm
They're just examples. It is a win for Reaktor to have more popularity, even though I don't like it as much as the antiquated and unpopular MDI interface.
I'm pretty sure you weren't trying to move the goalpost, but I was responding to the statement,
rageix wrote:and really it's a win win for everyone I think.
Not whether it's a win for the developer.

It's not a win for everyone when features are removed or broken, or that are depreciated by the developer. There will always be people that were much happier with the product the way it was. It was a weird comeback to jans complaints about her workflow to me. You can say for most people or for the company for sure, but when you say "for everyone", you're just being rude really. :shrug:

KVRist
478 posts since 2 Nov, 2014

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:34 pm

I kind of feel sad when I see a 'How to make trap' tutorials by Steinberg on youtube. Yes you can do it of course as you can do anything with it but these efforts seem cringey to me. Cubase does not need this and its forte is elsewhere.

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:42 pm

I'm fine with Steiny making the arranger window and all the non-linear or that, it's not in the way. Me, I on occasion repeat a groove or a vamp, but I'm not in that kind of hurry to be *productive* (capitalism reveal) and I'd build difference in anyway. reproducing by printing... meh
The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction

Fortunately we aren't forced to download several GB of loops content anymore, that was kind of in the way, but hey, I don't gotta install it/not worried.

I'm just coming off a couple of days of screaming at the computer. I haven't seen this instability in like a decade, if ever.

KVRAF
12823 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:48 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 pm
There will always be people that were much happier with the product the way it was.
Of course, but not being happy that the product isn't catering precisely to your needs, but, is still around, is a win for you as compared to it no longer being available. At that point you have no choice but to relearn everything. Adjusting to changes in the small when the software still works for you in the large is not the end of the world.

I was definitely happier with the MDI interface of Reaktor 5 and I would still like it as an option today, but the other new features that came along with later versions are a win for me.

KVRAF
12823 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon May 10, 2021 10:50 pm

andypryce wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:34 pm
I kind of feel sad when I see a 'How to make trap' tutorials by Steinberg on youtube. Yes you can do it of course as you can do anything with it but these efforts seem cringey to me. Cubase does not need this and its forte is elsewhere.
This is pretty much part and parcel with the big three's (Roland/Korg/Yamaha) efforts to be hip. Try some workstation techno demos from the 90s on for size for a good laugh.

KVRist
478 posts since 2 Nov, 2014

Post Mon May 10, 2021 11:14 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:50 pm
andypryce wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:34 pm
I kind of feel sad when I see a 'How to make trap' tutorials by Steinberg on youtube. Yes you can do it of course as you can do anything with it but these efforts seem cringey to me. Cubase does not need this and its forte is elsewhere.
This is pretty much part and parcel with the big three's (Roland/Korg/Yamaha) efforts to be hip. Try some workstation techno demos from the 90s on for size for a good laugh.
:lol: Spot on

KVRist
368 posts since 15 Apr, 2020

Post Mon May 10, 2021 11:16 pm

andypryce wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:34 pm
I kind of feel sad when I see a 'How to make trap' tutorials by Steinberg on youtube. Yes you can do it of course as you can do anything with it but these efforts seem cringey to me. Cubase does not need this and its forte is elsewhere.
What's so sad about it? It's actually good that they respond to current music trends too, instead of just sticking to their 50+ years old German rock'n'roll audio engineer crowd that is completely out of tune with modern production demands.

My only gripe with it is that this long haired Spanish Cubase guy (the dude that makes many of the English-language tutorials) tries to cover all modern genres, but often doesn't really know what he is doing, since he doesn't understand the intricacies of each musical style. Hence some of his presentations are cringeworthy. Venus Theoy (the nerd-looking guy) has some really useful modern Cubase tutorials though, even as a Cubase user of two-decades I was able to learn a thing or two from his videos!

Also, for every "trap tutorial" (or electronica, EDM, dance music, hiphop etc) there are still at least 10 more traditional and rather redundant "how to record a great guitar track" or "how to mix vocals" tutorials, aimed at either the more traditional (rock audio engineering guy) or more general user base.

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KVRAF
3389 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Mon May 10, 2021 11:21 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:48 pm
machinesworking wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 pm
There will always be people that were much happier with the product the way it was.
Of course, but not being happy that the product isn't catering precisely to your needs, but, is still around, is a win for you as compared to it no longer being available. At that point you have no choice but to relearn everything. Adjusting to changes in the small when the software still works for you in the large is not the end of the world.

I was definitely happier with the MDI interface of Reaktor 5 and I would still like it as an option today, but the other new features that came along with later versions are a win for me.
Well personally I've moved on from DAWs for changing too much, or going in directions I wasn't interested in. So it's not really a win for me if my workflow is shot to shit. I moved on from Logic because of those things, and my attempts at moving back are curtailed by those types of decisions made to please a larger audience. An example, with a 7 button mouse editing was super quick for me assigning right click to the Tool pallet, opens at curser, select and go, all one motion for any tool. That's not possible anymore really, and key commands for the Tool Pallet are contextual, meaning it's a two key combination to open the pencil tool if it's not selected as the secondary tool. It's a dumbed down version because contextual menus take over right clicking now. Useful to noobs, annoying to 'pros'.

Again, the point is and was, that changes to a DAW made without any doubt in order to attract new customers, are not beneficial to everyone, even if they benefit the larger buying audience, there's no way to spin this.

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KVRAF
3389 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Mon May 10, 2021 11:28 pm

Kazi7 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:16 pm
What's so sad about it? It's actually good that they respond to current music trends too, instead of just sticking to their 50+ years old German rock'n'roll audio engineer crowd that is completely out of tune with modern production demands.
You have a great point in general, but you would be surprised by how many modern productions are done by the 50+ year old engineer crowd. A friend of mine posted a comment a while ago on the lines of, "I'm thinking about the 50 something composers out there and how they're behind most of these teeny bop acts. Selflessly writing so these kids can be stars". :lol:

KVRist
478 posts since 2 Nov, 2014

Post Mon May 10, 2021 11:46 pm

Kazi7 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:16 pm
andypryce wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:34 pm
I kind of feel sad when I see a 'How to make trap' tutorials by Steinberg on youtube. Yes you can do it of course as you can do anything with it but these efforts seem cringey to me. Cubase does not need this and its forte is elsewhere.
What's so sad about it? It's actually good that they respond to current music trends too, instead of just sticking to their 50+ years old German rock'n'roll audio engineer crowd that is completely out of tune with modern production demands.

My only gripe with it is that this long haired Spanish Cubase guy (the dude that makes many of the English-language tutorials) tries to cover all modern genres, but often doesn't really know what he is doing, since he doesn't understand the intricacies of each musical style. Hence some of his presentations are cringeworthy. Venus Theoy (the nerd-looking guy) has some really useful modern Cubase tutorials though, even as a Cubase user of two-decades I was able to learn a thing or two from his videos!

Also, for every "trap tutorial" (or electronica, EDM, dance music, hiphop etc) there are still at least 10 more traditional and rather redundant "how to record a great guitar track" or "how to mix vocals" tutorials, aimed at either the more traditional (rock audio engineering guy) or more general user base.
I agree about Dom. His best tutorials are about technical aspects of Cubase.
Venus Theory is great, though I much prefer his more nerdy Bitwig stuff.
I am all for modern production tutorials for Cubase but some of them feels too much trying.

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 10, 2021 11:58 pm

"instead of just sticking to [this stereotype] that is completely out of tune with modern production demands."

I would venture to say sticking with what got you here is probably better than sticking it to those people.

KVRist
160 posts since 9 Jun, 2018

Post Tue May 11, 2021 7:36 am

machinesworking wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 pm
It's not a win for everyone when features are removed or broken, or that are depreciated by the developer. There will always be people that were much happier with the product the way it was. It was a weird comeback to jans complaints about her workflow to me. You can say for most people or for the company for sure, but when you say "for everyone", you're just being rude really. :shrug:
That's fair. I guess I look at it like adapt or die. I do think things need to evolve and update to keep up with the competition or just get better. The DAW market is too competitive and rapidly changing to simply stand by. Some times these changes will cause friction with the old user base that is use to doing things the old way. Suck it up and embrace it, no point to complain about it.

KVRAF
28478 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue May 11, 2021 7:49 am

andypryce wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:34 pm
I kind of feel sad when I see a 'How to make trap' tutorials by Steinberg on youtube. Yes you can do it of course as you can do anything with it but these efforts seem cringey to me. Cubase does not need this and its forte is elsewhere.
Tell me about it. It's the same with Studio One.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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