Disadvantages of DAWs in comparison to others

[jancivil]

"Suck it up and embrace it, no point to complain about it."
gross, rude, uncalled for

[jancivil]

all I said was it screws up my workflow, which seems not unreasonable on a digital audio forum with a Hosts subforum in a thread 'disadvantages of DAWs'. But do go on with yourself if that makes you seem 'more than'.

"I guess I look at it like adapt or die."

Yahama ain't exactly dying on the vine forced to survive by extraordinary means, I think the word for this behavior is GREED

[ghettosynth]

It's not a win for everyone when features are removed or broken, or that are depreciated by the developer. There will always be people that were much happier with the product the way it was. It was a weird comeback to jans complaints about her workflow to me. You can say for most people or for the company for sure, but when you say "for everyone", you're just being rude really.

That's fair. I guess I look at it like adapt or die. I do think things need to evolve and update to keep up with the competition or just get better. The DAW market is too competitive and rapidly changing to simply stand by. Some times these changes will cause friction with the old user base that is use to doing things the old way. Suck it up and embrace it, no point to complain about it.

Well, there is a point to voicing one's concerns if you believe that you have a reasonable chance at being heard. I think that you will have more success if your POV is in alignment with current thinking on the matter though. Many of the changes that are being discussed are the result of changing beliefs about U/I and U/X design. Whether one likes it or not, these are most likely seen as improvements by most people, even those that are used to the old way of thinking. The MDI/SDI issue that I brought up most certainly is viewed that way. It is an improvement taken as a whole, it's just that it killed several workflow features that I preferred. It's not some conspiracy to make it dumb for the new dumbies that are way dumber than you.

Am I happy that I can't still use Reaktor 5 prior to 5.5 because Service Center is gone and no longer activated, no, I'm not. This came up very specifically recently in a situation where there was no other solution other than to not use Reaktor and I was reminded of this annoyance. However, is it a win for me that I can still load old projects on current systems though, yes, it is. Do I have that feature with Logic for PC, no, no I don't. If I want to use that software I have to maintain an outdated and insecure PC with crusty old serial ports.

[rageix]

"Suck it up and embrace it, no point to complain about it."
gross, rude, uncalled for

I guess if someone has an opposing viewpoint and tells you to get bent, then yes. But really there are a few users on the forum, you included, that are just chronic complainers or dreamers of the old days. The old days are dead. Long live the new days.

[machinesworking]

It is an improvement taken as a whole, it's just that it killed several workflow features that I preferred. It's not some conspiracy to make it dumb for the new dumbies that are way dumber than you.

Ah, but some of it is exactly that. Live won the battle for ergonomics, despite my feelings about mousing too much in it, it's initial WYSIWYG interface won out, everyone is rushing to make things transparent to the new user, because there's an influx of new users. 15 years ago there weren't half as many guys working for start ups or big tech who do some type of electronic music on their laptop at home after work. Most of these guys haven't ever played a "real" instrument. I have zero issue with this, all the better, some people come up with amazing stuff this way, but let's face it, that's the crowd that most DAWs are catering to, and it shows. Live is an absolute perfect example, it started of total WYSIWYG, there was a huge effort to make everything in it visible at all times, there were and are parts of the basic MIDI spec that were completely left out because some guy playing a soft synth by penciling in notes in a Clip doesn't care about SysEx, NRPN, polyphonic aftertouch, more than 128 automation lanes, key commands etc. etc.

Go less than ten years after it starts and they add in Max4Live, after years of people having to script things to get various functions. Now there's this weird juxtaposition where it's this clean UX with parts of the DAW that are accessible only by object oriented programming. It's the logic of a code monkey, not a musician.

Granted some things done in the name of ease of use are better, but flatly not all of it, there's huge parts of this that I find super annoying. I personally do not believe for a second that Maschine would have come out without the ability to change time signatures if there wasn't this influx of dance music people who flatly don't even notice this shortcoming because everything they produce is in the same tempo and meter.

Am I happy that I can't still use Reaktor 5 prior to 5.5 because Service Center is gone and no longer activated, no, I'm not. This came up very specifically recently in a situation where there was no other solution other than to not use Reaktor and I was reminded of this annoyance. However, is it a win for me that I can still load old projects on current systems though, yes, it is. Do I have that feature with Logic for PC, no, no I don't. If I want to use that software I have to maintain an outdated and insecure PC with crusty old serial ports.

NI are terrible at backwards compatibility, I've owned Komplete since v2, but I'm well aware that I'm not going to be able to sell this 2009 Mac Pro here because of the fact that some things are probably going to be depreciated going into the port to M1. The list of depreciated soft and hardware from them is longer than any other developer I use. I bought VEP a while ago and most of my sample libraries will live on the Mac Pro, I came across 96GB of RAM, so I'm doubtful any new computer will load as many libraries etc.

[machinesworking]

"Suck it up and embrace it, no point to complain about it."
gross, rude, uncalled for

I guess if someone has an opposing viewpoint and tells you to get bent, then yes. But really there are a few users on the forum, you included, that are just chronic complainers or dreamers of the old days. The old days are dead. Long live the new days.

Either that or there are some people that have a toxic positivity thing going on, where if you state the problems with the direction the ship is headed in they act personally offended. Las time I checked the topic title asks you to dissect your issues with DAWs etc.

That's kind of how I see it, I don't recall anyone trying to tell you how you are as a person? and in this case I see someone replying to your aggression, asking you to tone it down and instead you pick it up.

[jancivil]

What old days? Man, what a bullshit story. Coming into a discussion with stuff about the person - from the get-go - leave alone the making up stories about how they are, & it's never better than that, is full-on the lowest level of human mentation.

[jancivil]

"Suck it up and embrace it, no point to complain about it."
gross, rude, uncalled for

I guess if someone has an opposing viewpoint and tells you to get bent, then yes.

You lack the self-awareness to realize you were complaining about something one might call a bit less substantive than someone bitching about their workflow impeded by stupid management. You were bitching about someone talking about a DAW's failings in a thread about failings of DAWs.

get bent

[jancivil]

One supposes the brave new days entails a lot of people that don't know how to build a triad or what a scale consists of, that can't manage to do 4 beats in a row in time using algorithms in software to fake having done 'their' music. If "the old days" means when we had self-respect (or when 'music' meant 'made by musicians') yeah, I can get behind that.

[pixel85]

Oh well, there's a lot of established electronic music producers who use Cubase. It's often visible on YouTube videos. Whoever said that electronic music producers don't use Cubase, meant very young ones I suppose.
You can do electronic music with any DAW. Most of electronic music genres doesn't require complex effects chains and tons of layers (popular mistake of newbies) which are easier to do in Ableton than Cubase. Or to use systems like in Bitwig. Of course there are artists who are making strange glitch ambient drone speedcore genres and for them these features are very useful. But most electronic music is not much different than rock or pop: drums, bass, lead, pads in AB or ABAC arrangement. Then there're those who use a lot of hardware and DAW serves only as arranger + mixer.

I belong to the crowd who believe that there's no point of changing Cubase into another copy of Live. Knowing Steinberg, such feature will require 3 full updates to really work and it just take human resources from fixing and improving current issues and broken features.

Also DAWs like Cubase are used not only for music tracks. It's the one thing that many seems to forget (audio for games, TV, film etc) So it's not like music broducers are the only crowd that those DAWs must bend to.

[DollyNipples]

I am sort of an oldschool type but I'm open to newer stuff as long as it works well and doesn't impose any annoying drm on the user.

[dupont]

You can do electronic music with any DAW. Most of electronic music genres doesn't require complex effects chains and tons of layers (popular mistake of newbies) which are easier to do in Ableton than Cubase. Or to use systems like in Bitwig. Of course there are artists who are making strange glitch ambient drone speedcore genres and for them these features are very useful. But most electronic music is not much different than rock or pop: drums, bass, lead, pads in AB or ABAC arrangement. Then there're those who use a lot of hardware and DAW serves only as arranger + mixer.

correct, most of the time, simpler is better.
I saw a video on youtube where a Ableton certified trainer explaining how to make complex track routing to apply several effects to an audio item. What a mess.
Why make it easy when you can make it difficult.
Ableton strenght is the marketing which most of videos with sexy girls !

[chk071]

You can do electronic music with any DAW. Most of electronic music genres doesn't require complex effects chains and tons of layers (popular mistake of newbies) which are easier to do in Ableton than Cubase. Or to use systems like in Bitwig. Of course there are artists who are making strange glitch ambient drone speedcore genres and for them these features are very useful. But most electronic music is not much different than rock or pop: drums, bass, lead, pads in AB or ABAC arrangement. Then there're those who use a lot of hardware and DAW serves only as arranger + mixer.

correct, most of the time, simpler is better.
I saw a video on youtube where a Ableton certified trainer explaining how to make complex track routing to apply several effects to an audio item. What a mess.
Why make it easy when you can make it difficult.

Same seems to apply to setting up the routing for MIDI plugins, if I take a look at the instructions in the BlueARP manual... ARGH.

It's so easy in Cubase and Studio One. And even easier in Reaper, with the INFX stuff (which should be standard in every host really. Would make MIDI FX completely redundant).

[WasteLand]

this thread gives me peace. i don't have to read it. i don't have to yell, i don't have to... just breathe...

the calm that 7 DAW's give, only bought, of course, to get peace when these threads show up.

[chk071]

Good for you that that gives you peace. It would give me the unrest of knowing that I wouldn't use 6 of those expensive 7 DAW's at all...