I need a limiter and two are on sale: IK Stealth or PSP Xenon?

[WasteLand]

That was like a stream of consciousness musing on gear. I imagined bongos hitting after each line, like it was a poetry slam.

"I AM...NOT...a limiter person." BADALUMP *bongos*

"that ONE dBFS...does NOT matter? THERE IS...volume knob...QUITE an invention..." BADALUMP

"...yes, JUST. ANOTHER...experience. ANOTHER...opinion." BADALUMP

indeed a stream of consciousness musing on gear, my way...

EDIT: i ám published poet, with only a reputation among other poets, a reputation that is quite strange, because of the very strange poetry.... and very rythmic...

[Spring Goose]

does it has it have to do with the kind of music you make, bias? or they really sound different?

I think they really sound different on my club/dance songs. for example Ozone sounds fine on my other songs, but TDR or Elephant or Elevate sound better on my club/dance songs. Elevate is the best i've heard i think, but it doesn't work for every/any club/dance song so i'm glad to have TDR and Elephant too.

[WasteLand]

does it has it have to do with the kind of music you make, bias? or they really sound different?

I think they really sound different on my club/dance songs. for example Ozone sounds fine on my other songs, but TDR or Elephant or Elevate sound better on my club/dance songs. Elevate is the best i've heard i think, but it doesn't work for every/any club/dance song so i'm glad to have TDR and Elephant too.

ok great to know, what i expected, but because i don't make songs in a lot of genres, mainly one... with quite a bandwidth.. but still..

great info! this gives more insight than discussions....

[Spring Goose]

does it has it have to do with the kind of music you make, bias? or they really sound different?

I think they really sound different on my club/dance songs. for example Ozone sounds fine on my other songs, but TDR or Elephant or Elevate sound better on my club/dance songs. Elevate is the best i've heard i think, but it doesn't work for every/any club/dance song so i'm glad to have TDR and Elephant too.

ok great to know, what i expected, but because i don't make songs in a lot of genres, mainly one... with quite a bandwidth.. but still..

great info! this gives more insight than discussions....

[WasteLand]

does it has it have to do with the kind of music you make, bias? or they really sound different?

I think they really sound different on my club/dance songs. for example Ozone sounds fine on my other songs, but TDR or Elephant or Elevate sound better on my club/dance songs. Elevate is the best i've heard i think, but it doesn't work for every/any club/dance song so i'm glad to have TDR and Elephant too.

ok great to know, what i expected, but because i don't make songs in a lot of genres, mainly one... with quite a bandwidth.. but still..

great info! this gives more insight than discussions....

more of these posts! please... gives some much more insight, yes i repeat myself, but it is so important.

[Spring Goose]

does it has it have to do with the kind of music you make, bias? or they really sound different?

I think they really sound different on my club/dance songs. for example Ozone sounds fine on my other songs, but TDR or Elephant or Elevate sound better on my club/dance songs. Elevate is the best i've heard i think, but it doesn't work for every/any club/dance song so i'm glad to have TDR and Elephant too.

ok great to know, what i expected, but because i don't make songs in a lot of genres, mainly one... with quite a bandwidth.. but still..

great info! this gives more insight than discussions....

more of these posts! please... gives some much more insight, yes i repeat myself, but it is so important.

OK let me think..

Here's a great thread about using Ozone:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=541459

Ozone Advanced 9 uses 2 limiters in series. The second is called "maximizer" which has 5 different modes, and 2 modes have a choice of setting, all of which will make different result. Some of the modes "pump" the signal which may be desirable or not, it depend what you want.

I think there are people who don't believe that different limiters sound different.
I think there are also people, like yourself, who prefer sound-shaping during mixdown than during mastering.
I remember when i was young i loved the sound of Radiohead - Pablo Honey which i credited to the producer John Leckie. It just sounded different than anything else i'd heard. I was disappointed a bit by Radiohead - The Bends and Radiohead - OK Computer which have a different sound again.
More recently i have realised that the "sound" which i loved and still love so much about Pablo Honey is actually the mastering. I invite you to listen to the 3 mentioned albums to see if you agree. Certainly the mixing is different on the 3 cds but also (quite obviously to me) the mastering is different, this presumably by choice of the band and the producer.
I think i've been searching for a "sound" for my club/dance songs. Actually i'd rather have a choice of several "sound" so not all the songs are the same. I make club/dance songs which i use for my DJing live and sometimes recorded. I'm probably looking for "sound" which i have been impressed by of other people's songs. However i haven't been making comparisons to other people's songs using anything except memory. I think I'm not looking for something unique but i'm looking for something which makes the song sound "real" (like other people's published songs). The limiter is one of the ingredients of the mastering. I am totally convinced that different limiters make a different result. For a couple of reasons I'm not able to do much mixing/mixdowns atm but i am able to do mastering and i have quite a lot of songs that i have been doing mastering to.
TDR is a modular limiter, and the modules can be moved in different order and modules can be kept/used or removed. TDR comes with a small number of presets and each is like a different limiter. Some use the clipper, some don't. I think the clipper is relevant to changing the "sound". Ozone doesn't have a "clipper". I think the "clipper" makes a distinctive "sound" something that is desirable to me. I tend to use the TDR presets which has the clipper. Of course the threshold and any of the settings still need to be adjusted. The preset is the starting point which is useful for beginners especially considering the modular options.
Elevate is a multiband limiter with upto 26 bands, and has a clipper. Elevate uses AI algorithms for the multiband function. Again Elevate comes with useful presets to use as a starting point. I haven't been adjusting the threshold, i have been adjusting the level of the signal which goes into Elevate which is i think effectively the same thing. You understand i am mostly self-taught about mastering and i am learning by some reading and by using my ears what i think sounds "better" and looking for the desired "sound" which sounds "real" like other published songs that DJs play in nightclubs. I have read that dance songs played in clubs have a loudness value which can be as great as 6lufs. I reckon it is dependant by genre. Unfortunately Elevate doesn't have a lufs meter (yet) which would be a useful addition they've said they are considering for an update. I think Elevate is closest to the "sound" i am looking for, and i don't think i am imagining it!
AFAIK a "clipper" is a type of limiter. So TDR and Elevate are using 2 or several stages of limiting with different methods.

BTW the songs on my Soundcloud page mostly doesn't have yet the updated mastering using TDR, Elephant, or Elevate limiters, so not worth to listen to if you wanted to hear what my recent (better) mastering sounds like.

Oh finally i have read people who said they hate that modern music is about having a "sound". Different strokes for different folks.

[WasteLand]

does it has it have to do with the kind of music you make, bias? or they really sound different?

I think they really sound different on my club/dance songs. for example Ozone sounds fine on my other songs, but TDR or Elephant or Elevate sound better on my club/dance songs. Elevate is the best i've heard i think, but it doesn't work for every/any club/dance song so i'm glad to have TDR and Elephant too.

ok great to know, what i expected, but because i don't make songs in a lot of genres, mainly one... with quite a bandwidth.. but still..

great info! this gives more insight than discussions....

more of these posts! please... gives some much more insight, yes i repeat myself, but it is so important.

OK let me think..

Here's a great thread about using Ozone:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=541459

Ozone Advanced 9 uses 2 limiters in series. The second is called "maximizer" which has 5 different modes, and 2 modes have a choice of setting, all of which will make different result. Some of the modes "pump" the signal which may be desirable or not, it depend what you want.

I think there are people who don't believe that different limiters sound different.
I think there are also people, like yourself, who prefer sound-shaping during mixdown than during mastering.
I remember when i was young i loved the sound of Radiohead - Pablo Honey which i credited to the producer John Leckie. It just sounded different than anything else i'd heard. I was disappointed a bit by Radiohead - The Bends and Radiohead - OK Computer which have a different sound again.
More recently i have realised that the "sound" which i loved and still love so much about Pablo Honey is actually the mastering. I invite you to listen to the 3 mentioned albums to see if you agree. Certainly the mixing is different on the 3 cds but also (quite obviously to me) the mastering is different, this presumably by choice of the band and the producer.
I think i've been searching for a "sound" for my club/dance songs. Actually i'd rather have a choice of several "sound" so not all the songs are the same. I make club/dance songs which i use for my DJing live and sometimes recorded. I'm probably looking for "sound" which i have been impressed by of other people's songs. However i haven't been making comparisons to other people's songs using anything except memory. I think I'm not looking for something unique but i'm looking for something which makes the song sound "real" (like other people's published songs). The limiter is one of the ingredients of the mastering. I am totally convinced that different limiters make a different result. For a couple of reasons I'm not able to do much mixing/mixdowns atm but i am able to do mastering and i have quite a lot of songs that i have been doing mastering to.
TDR is a modular limiter, and the modules can be moved in different order and modules can be kept/used or removed. TDR comes with a small number of presets and each is like a different limiter. Some use the clipper, some don't. I think the clipper is relevant to changing the "sound". Ozone doesn't have a "clipper". I think the "clipper" makes a distinctive "sound" something that is desirable to me. I tend to use the TDR presets which has the clipper. Of course the threshold and any of the settings still need to be adjusted. The preset is the starting point which is useful for beginners especially considering the modular options.
Elevate is a multiband limiter with upto 26 bands, and has a multiband clipper. Elevate uses AI algorithms for the multiband function. Again Elevate comes with useful presets to use as a starting point. I haven't been adjusting the threshold, i have been adjusting the level of the signal which goes into Elevate which is i think effectively the same thing. You understand i am mostly self-taught about mastering and i am learning by some reading and by using my ears what i think sounds "better" and looking for the desired "sound" which sounds "real" like other published songs that DJs play in nightclubs. I have read that dance songs played in clubs have a loudness value which can be as great as 6lufs. I reckon it is dependant by genre. Unfortunately Elevate doesn't have a lufs meter (yet) which would be a useful addition they've said they are considering for an update. I think Elevate is closest to the "sound" i am looking for, and i don't think i am imagining it!
AFAIK a "clipper" is a type of limiter. So TDR and Elevate are using 2 or several stages of limiting with different methods.

BTW the songs on my Soundcloud page mostly doesn't have yet the updated mastering using TDR, Elephant, or Elevate limiters, so not worth to listen to if you wanted to hear what my recent (better) mastering sounds like.

this deserves a quick response, for a insight how someone works, and how important it is, to know your way around, self-taught, or other any other means. and that it takes time, to master (...) it all.
and it deserves a deeper response, but time!....

in the beginning people commented on my productions, but that has completely disappeared...
so more the -how do you say- mix/endmix (mastering was in that time not that bad, but misconceptions... i must re-master them, i have luckily all tracks also unmastered..).

ok. enough for now. i shall listen to the albums you mention, i only know OK computer, and shall listen to them, at cd quality.. high-end installation (that is also now my reference, it took some time, how good or 'bad', it does sometimes not matter that much, but you are used to monitors/amplifiers/speakers. if it changes, you must go through a period of adjusting.. the period of adjusting that i could judge my endmixes on that installation, costed me some time... half year or so... before i could trust it without a doubt..)

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

great to read your story/experience. i am now very curious for elevate... but i will hold back...

Ozone didn't do it for me, like neutron, nektar or RX (although the latter, some some times, the only one installed). personal, also do with how it affects the sound, the mix, that i always carefully do. as i said, i master in the mix. but some mastering i do, although a little, mono-end, sometimes, this and that. not a lot.

this would be a short response; i will leave with a link, there are better articles, but mastering has a history, mastering was 'invented', in a way, or needed, because of transfering to different media;

https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-refe ... mastering/

i always wanted to open a thread, an open thread, to discuss mastering. there a many approaches, luckily!, diversity (a word that you can't use anymore it seems) i applaud..

and yes -6 LUFS, i am on a Forum, where people also make music for the dancefloor (i am old...), and they go to -6 LUFS.

my goal is simple; a reasonable hifi set (no sonos...), or a reasonable headphone, with a reasonable DAC in your phone. i don't care about cars, laptops, bluetooth speakers. but strangely most work on it, although, many exceptions. a choice.

quite a long response, i can never make a post, o well sometimes.

thanks! i will reread it, these kind of experiences are more helpfull then, ozone is better than IKM or the other way around (i prefer IKM...).

and i know the factor; the style of your work, i make sounds from scratch, they way i make sounds (at high quality, but sometimes high-quality lo-fi, or artefacts, i like..), this influences how effects work for you, or how synths work for you, etc.

and also the mastering tools you have or need. and yes it's a journey. it took me long time, read a lot, and experience, to get where i am now, and still only a very enthuastic student. me like that..
and talking with a good friend ánd neighbour, who has also a studio, quite different from me.

how you write down your experience, does show the particulars of mastering tools. great!

perhaps i must not come with deep response, because o well, i know myself...

again it gave also new insights, i knew it, but now with more knowledge. thanks, again!

[Spring Goose]

this deserves a quick response, for a insight how someone works, and how important it is, to know your way around, self-taught, or other any other means. and that it takes time, to master (...) it all.
and it deserves a deeper response, but time!....

in the beginning people commented on my productions, but that has completely disappeared...
so more the -how do you say- mix/endmix (mastering was in that time not that bad, but misconceptions... i must re-master them, i have luckily all tracks also unmastered..).

ok. enough for now. i shall listen to the albums you mention, i only know OK computer, and shall listen to them, at cd quality.. high-end installation (that is also now my reference, it took some time, how good or 'bad', it does sometimes not matter that much, but you are used to monitors/amplifiers/speakers. if it changes, you must go through a period of adjusting.. the period of adjusting that i could judge my endmixes on that installation, costed me some time... half year or so... before i could trust it without a doubt..)

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

great to read your story/experience. i am now very curious for elevate... but i will hold back...

Ozone didn't do it for me, like neutron, nektar or RX (although the latter, some some times, the only one installed). personal, also do with how it affects the sound, the mix, that i always carefully do. as i said, i master in the mix. but some mastering i do, although a little, mono-end, sometimes, this and that. not a lot.

this would be a short response; i will leave with a link, there are better articles, but mastering has a history, mastering was 'invented', in a way, or needed, because of transfering to different media;

https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-refe ... mastering/

i always wanted to open a thread, an open thread, to discuss mastering. there a many approaches, luckily!, diversity (a word that you can't use anymore it seems) i applaud..

and yes -6 LUFS, i am on a Forum, where people also make music for the dancefloor (i am old...), and they go to -6 LUFS.

my goal is simple; a reasonable hifi set (no sonos...), or a reasonable headphone, with a reasonable DAC in your phone. i don't care about cars, laptops, bluetooth speakers. but strangely most work on it, although, many exceptions. a choice.

quite a long response, i can never make a post, o well sometimes.

thanks! i will reread it, these kind of experiences are more helpfull then, ozone is better than IKM or the other way around (i prefer IKM...).

and i know the factor; the style of your work, i make sounds from scratch, they way i make sounds (at high quality, but sometimes high-quality lo-fi, or artefacts, i like..), this influences how effects work for you, or how synths work for you, etc.

and also the mastering tools you have or need. and yes it's a journey. it took me long time, read a lot, and experience, to get where i am now, and still only a very enthuastic student. me like that..
and talking with a good friend ánd neighbour, who has also a studio, quite different from me.

how you write down your experience, does show the particulars of mastering tools. great!

perhaps i must not come with deep response, because o well, i know myself...

again it gave also new insights, i knew it, but now with more knowledge. thanks, again!

No problem, thanks to you also!

[Spring Goose]

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

so what's the difference of clipping the peaks/signal or limiting the peaks/signal? I understand that limiting is the extreme form of compression at infinite ratio. I thought that both clipping and limiting essentially make a similar result, but perhaps i am mistaken.

[perpetual3]

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

so what's the difference of clipping the peaks/signal or limiting the peaks/signal? I understand that limiting is the extreme form of compression at infinite ratio. I thought that both clipping and limiting essentially make a similar result, but perhaps i am mistaken.

“ The main difference between the clipper and limiter is that clipper will cut the audio signal at a certain level. It’s simply clipping the audio signal. On the flipside, with Limiter, you can control the audio signal by setting up: attack, release, sustain, look-ahead, style, amount of transient, etc.”

https://integraudio.com/clipper-vs-limiter/

[Spring Goose]

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

so what's the difference of clipping the peaks/signal or limiting the peaks/signal? I understand that limiting is the extreme form of compression at infinite ratio. I thought that both clipping and limiting essentially make a similar result, but perhaps i am mistaken.

“ The main difference between the clipper and limiter is that clipper will cut the audio signal at a certain level. It’s simply clipping the audio signal. On the flipside, with Limiter, you can control the audio signal by setting up: attack, release, sustain, look-ahead, style, amount of transient, etc.”

https://integraudio.com/clipper-vs-limiter/

"the clipper is clipping the audio signal and sound more aggressive while the limiter is more transparent"

I must recognise the sound from other songs i have heard particularly on a club system in a club, and i think the sound which i especially like involves a clipper, which i have read (clipping) has been done on analogue desks with dance music since the 1990s. I think i also recognise the sound of heavy limiting which i have heard on some hard techno songs.

I reckon also that digital clipping doesn't sound exactly the same as analogue clipping, and i reckon that digital "clippers" probably seek to emulate the analogue clipping sound, but perhaps i'm not correct.

Thanks for your reply!

[perpetual3]

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

so what's the difference of clipping the peaks/signal or limiting the peaks/signal? I understand that limiting is the extreme form of compression at infinite ratio. I thought that both clipping and limiting essentially make a similar result, but perhaps i am mistaken.

“ The main difference between the clipper and limiter is that clipper will cut the audio signal at a certain level. It’s simply clipping the audio signal. On the flipside, with Limiter, you can control the audio signal by setting up: attack, release, sustain, look-ahead, style, amount of transient, etc.”

https://integraudio.com/clipper-vs-limiter/

"the clipper is clipping the audio signal and sound more aggressive while the limiter is more transparent"

I must recognise the sound from other songs i have heard particularly on a club system in a club, and i think the sound which i especially like involves a clipper, which i have read (clipping) has been done on analogue desks with dance music since the 1990s. I think i also recognise the sound of heavy limiting which i have heard on some hard techno songs.

I reckon also that digital clipping doesn't sound exactly the same as analogue clipping, and i reckon that digital "clippers" probably seek to emulate the analogue clipping sound, but perhaps i'm not correct.

Thanks for your reply!

You’re welcome. I like to use the Newfangled Saturate clipper myself.

[Spring Goose]

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

so what's the difference of clipping the peaks/signal or limiting the peaks/signal? I understand that limiting is the extreme form of compression at infinite ratio. I thought that both clipping and limiting essentially make a similar result, but perhaps i am mistaken.

“ The main difference between the clipper and limiter is that clipper will cut the audio signal at a certain level. It’s simply clipping the audio signal. On the flipside, with Limiter, you can control the audio signal by setting up: attack, release, sustain, look-ahead, style, amount of transient, etc.”

https://integraudio.com/clipper-vs-limiter/

"the clipper is clipping the audio signal and sound more aggressive while the limiter is more transparent"

I must recognise the sound from other songs i have heard particularly on a club system in a club, and i think the sound which i especially like involves a clipper, which i have read (clipping) has been done on analogue desks with dance music since the 1990s. I think i also recognise the sound of heavy limiting which i have heard on some hard techno songs.

I reckon also that digital clipping doesn't sound exactly the same as analogue clipping, and i reckon that digital "clippers" probably seek to emulate the analogue clipping sound, but perhaps i'm not correct.

Thanks for your reply!

You’re welcome. I like to use the Newfangled Saturate clipper myself.

That remind me one error of what i said (above). It isn't multiband clipper, just multiband limiter. Cheers

[Spring Goose]

clippers are indeed no limiters, they clip peaks, literally... (folding is another way, but then you come into another domain). they can also used as an effect, like limiter.. everything can be used the way you want to.. within limits (!) of course!

so what's the difference of clipping the peaks/signal or limiting the peaks/signal? I understand that limiting is the extreme form of compression at infinite ratio. I thought that both clipping and limiting essentially make a similar result, but perhaps i am mistaken.

“ The main difference between the clipper and limiter is that clipper will cut the audio signal at a certain level. It’s simply clipping the audio signal. On the flipside, with Limiter, you can control the audio signal by setting up: attack, release, sustain, look-ahead, style, amount of transient, etc.”

https://integraudio.com/clipper-vs-limiter/

"the clipper is clipping the audio signal and sound more aggressive while the limiter is more transparent"

I must recognise the sound from other songs i have heard particularly on a club system in a club, and i think the sound which i especially like involves a clipper, which i have read (clipping) has been done on analogue desks with dance music since the 1990s. I think i also recognise the sound of heavy limiting which i have heard on some hard techno songs.

I reckon also that digital clipping doesn't sound exactly the same as analogue clipping, and i reckon that digital "clippers" probably seek to emulate the analogue clipping sound, but perhaps i'm not correct.

Thanks for your reply!

You’re welcome. I like to use the Newfangled Saturate clipper myself.

So, Wavebox by Audiothing is a clipper too?, i'll have to try that. & also izotope Trash can be used for clipping? i'll have to try these.

[WasteLand]

So, Wavebox by Audiothing is a clipper too?, i'll have to try that. & also izotope Trash can be used for clipping? i'll have to try these.

waveshapers, can clip.. and fold. and the the difference between a clipper and limiter is already explained, a clipper ain't a compressor.

and waveshapers can do more, like trash. don't know wavebox.