Chord progressions and song structure

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
KVRist
64 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Thu May 13, 2021 10:03 am

Yeah I think it's EMaj9. I heard bass is E. Maybe B/E? This is a theory hole I'm trying to fill in.

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Fri May 14, 2021 5:26 pm

It is. I'm not really making out an E bass on the MBP speakers, I hear a B on the fifth string in the acoustic guitar for that chord.

Never thought about this, and I had the sheet back when I was 12 or 13, but I think the real tonic for the song is E, which is peculiar, given the chord doesn't appear right away

KVRist
64 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Fri May 14, 2021 6:02 pm

Thanks Jan. Was on MBP speakers as well. It took me a couple of listens on that bar with an ear super close... until I spelled out the upward arpeggio G B D before landing on E. I sang bass in an amateur choir for a while. Maybe that helped :D

btw I found an error. The verse ends on E, not D. Peculiar indeed!

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Fri May 14, 2021 6:17 pm

Yeah, I had to get right up against the thing. First thing I noticed at that juncture was the F# which sounded like a 9th, not the fifth of B or something.
I would call it E add9 (or add2), as a number of people take 'Maj9' to include a major 7. Vagaries of names.

Yeah, on E not D, part of my reasoning for it being the actual tonic.

KVRist
64 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Fri May 14, 2021 6:54 pm

jancivil wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 6:17 pm
First thing I noticed at that juncture was the F# which sounded like a 9th, not the fifth of B or something.
I just got it. That's a clearer clue!

In fact I meant EMaj7/9 earlier. Just played along. It went with either EMaj7/9 or E9. So I believe you're right, it's Eadd9. (Personally I prefer playing D#, though!)

KVRist
64 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Fri May 14, 2021 7:06 pm

Putting in more detail, all the chords are kind of add9 for a short moment where the guitar slides/hammers up from 9 to 3. There comes the coherency when the Eadd9 arrives and stays, highlighting the refrain. COOL!

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KVRist
373 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sat May 15, 2021 10:46 am

jancivil wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 6:17 pm
I would call it E add9 (or add2), as a number of people take 'Maj9' to include a major 7.
Yup. I have actually seen it written like this: Maj9(-7).
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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KVRian
1384 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat May 15, 2021 1:46 pm

shawshawraw wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:03 am
Yeah I think it's EMaj9. I heard bass is E. Maybe B/E? This is a theory hole I'm trying to fill in.
Not sure, it's a long time ago. I tend to make myself "forget about pitch."
It was just that I'm busy with augmented chords.

I found this video about them:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wNWDjhDo2Ak

The funny thing about aug chords is that they cover a specific area:

C E G# / Db F A / Bb D F# / G B D# great opportunity to go all the way:

One note higher:
C E G# > C# E G# = C#m ( up - - )
C E G# > C F Ab = Fm ( - up - )
C E G# > C E A = Am ( - - up)
Lower:
C E G# > B E G# = E ( down - - )
C E G# > C Eb Ab = Ab ( - down - )
C E G# > C E G = C ( - - down )
Same principle, but two notes move a note up (seems fair, no?):
C E G# > Db F Ab = Db ( up up - )
C E G# > C# E A = A ( up - up )
C E G# > C F A = F ( - up up)
Down:
C E G# > B D# G# = G#m ( down down - )
C E G# > B E G = Em ( down - down )
C E G# > C Eb G = Cm ( - down down )

Now, guess what....???

KVRist
64 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Sat May 15, 2021 2:40 pm

excuse me please wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 1:46 pm
Not sure, it's a long time ago. I tend to make myself "forget about pitch."
It was just that I'm busy with augmented chords.

I found this video about them:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wNWDjhDo2Ak

The funny thing about aug chords is that they cover a specific area:

C E G# / Db F A / Bb D F# / G B D# great opportunity to go all the way:

One note higher:
C E G# > C# E G# = C#m ( up - - )
C E G# > C F Ab = Fm ( - up - )
C E G# > C E A = Am ( - - up)
Lower:
C E G# > B E G# = E ( down - - )
C E G# > C Eb Ab = Ab ( - down - )
C E G# > C E G = C ( - - down )
Same principle, but two notes move a note up (seems fair, no?):
C E G# > Db F Ab = Db ( up up - )
C E G# > C# E A = A ( up - up )
C E G# > C F A = F ( - up up)
Down:
C E G# > B D# G# = G#m ( down down - )
C E G# > B E G = Em ( down - down )
C E G# > C Eb G = Cm ( - down down )

Now, guess what....???
That's a cool video, thanks for sharing! I learned a new thing, the "Lydian Augmented" b3 4 5 6 7 1 2 b3.

Yup, I actually spent a long time throwing away the absolute pitch, but really focusing on the relative degrees like determining if a semitone I heard is 3-4 or 7-1 in the scale etc., which is a much 'musical' way of hearing (sorry for abusing the word 'musical').

If I hear an aug in a regular major or minor song, I'll first figure out where the chromatic degree is, then the voice leading comes as a natural resolution, like #5=>6 or b6=>5 etc etc., or stays on chromatic. Personally I find absolute pitch a little cumbersome in these cases, which perhaps means I don't really have a keyboard mindset haha (that's why I started practicing guitar! Well, it could also be I never practiced keyboard hard enough, haha).

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KVRian
1384 posts since 10 Oct, 2018

Post Sat May 15, 2021 2:55 pm

:) I also discovered something. A B C D E F G# A harmonic minor / C D E F G Ab B C harmonic major (Ethiopian scale).

I also come from a guitar background, although I can find the notes quickly on a keyboard too.

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sun May 16, 2021 6:19 am

Lydian Augmented scale is the third mode of melodic minor in ascension. You have given the intervals of melodic minor. Two_different_objects.
The thing one has learned from relative minor and the way modalization of the received diatonic so-called ecclesiastic modes is usually organized, that there is this central phenomenon in music known as the major scale and the rest are byproducts, is actually flatly wrong. No scale begins with another tonic as primary.
From A tonic, of course plain melodic minor ascending appears as: A B C D E F# G#.

C D E F# G# A B is 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 7. C is its tonic. Full stop.
The chief idea of that construct, given in that name (one of the better names IME) is #4 #5.

KVRist
64 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Sun May 16, 2021 9:12 am

jancivil wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:19 am
Lydian Augmented scale is the third mode of melodic minor in ascension. You have given the intervals of melodic minor. Two_different_objects.
The thing one has learned from relative minor and the way modalization of the received diatonic so-called ecclesiastic modes is usually organized, that there is this central phenomenon in music known as the major scale and the rest are byproducts, is actually flatly wrong. No scale begins with another tonic as primary.
From A tonic, of course plain melodic minor ascending appears as: A B C D E F# G#.

C D E F# G# A B is 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 7. C is its tonic. Full stop.
The chief idea of that construct, given in that name (one of the better names IME) is #4 #5.
Yes sir! I'll refrain myself from using non-1 tonic. I trust your experience on this matter :)

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addled muppet weed
79189 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun May 16, 2021 10:37 am

ma'am ;)

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sun May 16, 2021 11:49 am

yeah, this ain't the army or some shit
I remember on Battlestar Galactica they were calling Starbucks or whatever her name is sir all the time.

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KVRist
373 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sun May 16, 2021 11:52 am

Yes, chord per scale step all through thousands of scales. Best of luck. I stick to two type of chords, complete chords with root, third, fifth (in jazz with 7 and Maj 7 too) and all the others that are usually substitutes and mediators anyway. And I say usually, which means there are a wide range of exceptions to. If a tonic in jazz implies 6 instead of 7, it is no longer a mediator. So functions can be switched. A two-part functional chord system, which I use without ever thinking of dominants and subdominants. Did Fux screw up the parallel fifths thing, he did deliver a simple and usable system in this regard. From a theoretical point of view, I guess it can be somewhat exciting to me too with all these chords, just not very applicable to me compared to the two type system.
Last edited by TribeOfHǫfuð on Sun May 16, 2021 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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