Cherry Audio Releases PS-20 Polyphonic Synthesizer!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
389 posts since 18 Nov, 2010

Post Sun May 16, 2021 7:53 am

Niowiad wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 12:19 am
I can't seem to wrap my head around the filter resonance behavior.
The resonant bump basically disappears past a certain point.
It can disappear sooner or later in the 2k-10k range, depending on the DRIVE and PEAK values (higher values will produce a stronger peak which will fade out later in the range, compared to a weaker one), but in any case it sounds like it fades out too soon.

Here is an example of a quite strong resonant peak, completely fading-out at around 7k-8k.
Image


For anyone who is wondering... it just didn't start with the analyzer. I was simply trying to compare the Cherry and Korg plugins and immediately found out I couldn't get nearly close that very basic sound at 01:34 with the PS-20... which eventually led me to check out the spectrum analyzer and see what was going on.
https://youtu.be/Lp448w0LETo?t=94
I'm sure you are totally right, but I was able to get a close enough to the video for live cover play. I noted the 1st VFC peak and drive heavily affect the 2nd VCF tone output - i don't know anything about this synth or the real one and was just playing with everything. Was able to get close, then, many various other flavors that would work too.
ps20.JPG
This was from the "NEW" default patch. Not saying I nailed it, nor that it sounds like a real ms20, just was fun to play with.
(ignore the horrible steppy sound of my controller knob) ((was much smoother with the mouse))

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ii7zs9p5pv8gd73/ps20.mp3?dl=0
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KVRAF
3122 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Sun May 16, 2021 8:54 am

CA is quite prolific 8) Is it a big company or how can they release so many synths within a relatively short period of time?

KVRer
2 posts since 9 Oct, 2019

Post Sun May 16, 2021 10:42 am

Really liked what they did with the ps-20, great price too

KVRAF
1801 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun May 16, 2021 10:45 am

e-crooner wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 8:54 am
CA is quite prolific 8) Is it a big company or how can they release so many synths within a relatively short period of time?
see on page 2, my reaction. they already released versions, in modular form, for VM, and that also took development time, but they already had the basics, and more. so...
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KVRAF
3122 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Post Sun May 16, 2021 10:50 am

WasteLand wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:45 am
e-crooner wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 8:54 am
CA is quite prolific 8) Is it a big company or how can they release so many synths within a relatively short period of time?
see on page 2, my reaction. they already released versions, in modular form, for VM, and that also took development time, but they already had the basics, and more. so...
Oh, I see. And have they gotten rid of the aliasing on their previous synths? I read that was an issue for some...
And their emulations are not as spot-on as others I take it...

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KVRAF
4093 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun May 16, 2021 10:55 am

e-crooner wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 8:54 am
CA is quite prolific 8) Is it a big company or how can they release so many synths within a relatively short period of time?
NO they are not a big company , just have a look at their headquarters , located somewhere in the californian desert .
NOt all of the C.A.employees have a background in dsp , some of them were just regular journalists for music magazines and or bass players from long forgotten 80,s bands :D
THey did found a good marketing niche .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRist
232 posts since 18 Feb, 2019

Post Sun May 16, 2021 10:56 am

e-crooner wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:50 am
WasteLand wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:45 am
e-crooner wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 8:54 am
CA is quite prolific 8) Is it a big company or how can they release so many synths within a relatively short period of time?
see on page 2, my reaction. they already released versions, in modular form, for VM, and that also took development time, but they already had the basics, and more. so...
Oh, I see. And have they gotten rid of the aliasing on their previous synths? I read that was an issue for some...
And their emulations are not as spot-on as others I take it...
I always appreciate improvements but I think Cherry Audio have struck a really nice balance with these releases. You should definitely try them out for yourself as there are many happy customers.

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KVRian
902 posts since 25 Jan, 2017

Post Sun May 16, 2021 11:55 am

wwjd wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 7:53 am
Niowiad wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 12:19 am
I can't seem to wrap my head around the filter resonance behavior.
The resonant bump basically disappears past a certain point.
It can disappear sooner or later in the 2k-10k range, depending on the DRIVE and PEAK values (higher values will produce a stronger peak which will fade out later in the range, compared to a weaker one), but in any case it sounds like it fades out too soon.

Here is an example of a quite strong resonant peak, completely fading-out at around 7k-8k.
https://s3.gifyu.com/images/ps-20-resonance.gif


For anyone who is wondering... it just didn't start with the analyzer. I was simply trying to compare the Cherry and Korg plugins and immediately found out I couldn't get nearly close that very basic sound at 01:34 with the PS-20... which eventually led me to check out the spectrum analyzer and see what was going on.
https://youtu.be/Lp448w0LETo?t=94
I'm sure you are totally right, but I was able to get a close enough to the video for live cover play. I noted the 1st VFC peak and drive heavily affect the 2nd VCF tone output - i don't know anything about this synth or the real one and was just playing with everything. Was able to get close, then, many various other flavors that would work too.ps20.JPG
This was from the "NEW" default patch. Not saying I nailed it, nor that it sounds like a real ms20, just was fun to play with.
(ignore the horrible steppy sound of my controller knob) ((was much smoother with the mouse))

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ii7zs9p5pv8gd73/ps20.mp3?dl=0
It probably was kind of an overstatement on my part to say it wasn't getting "nearly close" to that sound... your audio is definitely comparable to what I got too and I understand it could sure be considered close in some way. The overall character is somehow there, the resonance behavior although is quite different in some parts of the spectrum.
By saying I wasn't getting "nearly close" it was meant more as "nearly close to being indistinguishable", but sure it could be considered close enough in a general sense :)


I consider that specific played part having a "key range" in the 500-2000 Hz area... that range can be programmed to sound almost indistinguishable, but it gets sensibly different above and below the said range.

[above] The resonant peak in your recording "dies" at 2k (which is the issue I reported earlier) and it's not your fault, whereas in the YouTube example it goes nearly up to 5k (but could have gone further if he just wanted to open the filter more). Same with the Korg demo.
As noted in my previous post, the PS-20 can definitely go past 2k if resonance is increased, but at that point it starts sounding far too aggressive/different in the "key" range (and below).

[below] In order to sound right between the 500-2k range, that resonance amount ends up sounding exaggerated in the lower part (150-500 Hz) when it touches to the first few harmonics, compared to the YouTube video and the Korg demo.


Thanks to your post I also got to notice how the HPF resonance severely affects the LPF resonance.
I also don't have the hardware and I'm not sure what's up with that :wink:

And I have no way to know how closely the PS-20 relates to the specific unit Cherry must have used.


The PS-20 is very nice in many ways though, and Cherry is overall crushing it since they got in the business :party:

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KVRAF
4093 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Mon May 17, 2021 4:21 am

Sure they are probably crushing it when it comes to sales figues , but when it concerns accuracy I don't think so .
A simple example , on an original ms 20 there is no filter drive knob , the filter is automatically overdriven when the osc gain was at max , which affects the resonance (attenuates it ) , also depending on filter revision
Osc at halfway position , with full reso gave you a screaming resonant sound .
On the cherry re-creation , when you set filter drive to zero and resonance to max , the resonance sounds verry weak (almost absent )..in order to get a pronounced resonant peak ..you need to turn up the drive ... ??
This is why I believe their re-creations are far from accurate , which does NOT mean their re-creations aren't usable .
But that's how (imho ) Cherry Audio rolls , (relatively) good instruments at a bargain price sugar coated with promo .
The speed at which they bring out their instruments is a good indicator concerning ( the lack ) of accurate modelling
Overall I do like the sound of the ps-20 and that's probably enough for most people
Not hating , just my 2 cents

Also I am missing the mg/t.ext ( relabeled mod gen on ps 20) and the total external in patchpoint .., iow I can't override the mod gen
If someone could help me out , much appreciated
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRian
902 posts since 25 Jan, 2017

Post Mon May 17, 2021 5:15 am

I mostly meant business-wise.
I find quite remarkable what they built in just 2-3 years since they first appeared.

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KVRAF
5690 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon May 17, 2021 6:58 am

Some patches eat 100% CPU on my 10- core Mac Pro, mostly those with lots of cables. I tried to run them on my Air, but Bitwig (3.3.9) doesn’t list the PS-20 even not under plug-ins with errors...
So far I love the sounds...
Last edited by Tj Shredder on Mon May 17, 2021 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRist
152 posts since 6 Jul, 2019

Post Mon May 17, 2021 7:22 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 6:58 am
Some patches eat 100% CPU on my 10- core Mac Pro, mostly those with lots of cables. I tried to run them on my Air, but Bitwig (3.3.9) doesn’t list them even not under plug-ins with errors...
So far I love the sounds...
I could not push any patch that I tried to more than 60% in AL on my iMac 2012 quadcore I5. Can you give an example ?

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KVRAF
5690 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am

Meandorer jumps to 100% without playing a note and crackles. Moody Intervals will jump to 100% on playing a single note... There are more, the difference might be i5 vs Xenon...
Last edited by Tj Shredder on Mon May 17, 2021 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF
10996 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Mon May 17, 2021 7:36 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:21 am
Sure they are probably crushing it when it comes to sales figues , but when it concerns accuracy I don't think so .
A simple example , on an original ms 20 there is no filter drive knob , the filter is automatically overdriven when the osc gain was at max , which affects the resonance (attenuates it ) , also depending on filter revision
Osc at halfway position , with full reso gave you a screaming resonant sound .
On the cherry re-creation , when you set filter drive to zero and resonance to max , the resonance sounds verry weak (almost absent )..in order to get a pronounced resonant peak ..you need to turn up the drive ... ??
This is why I believe their re-creations are far from accurate , which does NOT mean their re-creations aren't usable .
But that's how (imho ) Cherry Audio rolls , (relatively) good instruments at a bargain price sugar coated with promo .
The speed at which they bring out their instruments is a good indicator concerning ( the lack ) of accurate modelling
Overall I do like the sound of the ps-20 and that's probably enough for most people
Not hating , just my 2 cents

Also I am missing the mg/t.ext ( relabeled mod gen on ps 20) and the total external in patchpoint .., iow I can't override the mod gen
If someone could help me out , much appreciated
Agreed. I got a few of their things because I find them interesting, but the accuracy is pretty terrible. I mostly got into Voltage Modular because of the Poly Moog module, which ends up being really fun to work with in a modular environment. I do wish it was a bit better sounding, like Softube Modular or Reaktor Blocks.
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KVRAF
15395 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am
Meandorer jumps to 100% without playing a not and crackles. Moody Intervals will jump to 100% on playing a single note... There are more, the difference might be i5 vs Xenon...
Hmmm that's weird. On my internet computer which is an ancient i5 3470 "Moody Intervals" runs at about 35% with three notes playing as reported by the DAW's CPU meter.

Windows 10 Task Manager Meter shows about 15-22% CPU utilization.
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