Chord progressions and song structure

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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addled muppet weed
78893 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun May 16, 2021 11:54 am

jancivil wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:49 am
yeah, this ain't the army or some shit
I remember on Battlestar Galactica they were calling Starbucks or whatever her name is sir all the time.
working with the homeless, i spent a lot of time with ex cons, they called me "boss" all the time, prison slang for the screws dammit :x
it was more of a fun thing though, i certainly wasnt anything like a prison officer...
but, it got me in to the habit, of calling everyone "boss" in conversation, to the point i ioften get asked if ive been inside :o
no i have not! id never survive! :cry:

KVRAF
21898 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sun May 16, 2021 12:01 pm

Well, there's a fair bit of music that goes back and forth with the relatives or even has ambiguities, but please do not sing La for minor Do.
I remember when I first heard of that, hard for me to feature that logic, unless it really is not clear and the minor is vanilla natural. There should be two more syllables for minor, reflecting the sharp-ing.

For that matter, if you perceive a two chord vamp in modal usage slowly enough, you can say here are two modes. Let's take a Mixo vamp, our two chords are D and C. It's Mixo on D but Lydian on C, and it can have a very strong feeling of Lydian (and some people will insist on it).

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KVRist
357 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sun May 16, 2021 3:12 pm

I don't do the do-re-mi either. Never did. That was theory, or like being occupied with the letters in a exciting novel. He, he. There is nothing like passing composer exams ignoring most of what you have learned. KISS: Keep it simple, stupid. Reduction rules in practise. Sometimes ignorance is really bliss, if the ignored is unecessary to pay attention to.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

KVRAF
21898 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sun May 16, 2021 4:42 pm

No, I'm simply saying don't sing the wrong syllable. 1 = Do. End of story. I don't understand the logic of not allowing minor key to have a f**king tonic.

We sang every morning, we sang all kinds of things, we sang from neumes even. When I transferred, sight singing was if anything more important, to Beulah Forbes it was. I wasn't even sick of it, but I did not need to be in that class having completed the regimen TWICE, but they wouldn't hear of letting me alone.

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KVRist
357 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Mon May 17, 2021 4:20 am

Till now, you have my full support, as far as I get you. Also in the alternative DO case, the survival of the fittest rules in practise to me: if it doesn't make sense, it ain't usable. To each, his own. Use it those who can.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

KVRist
59 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Mon May 17, 2021 4:44 am

Personally, relearning a minor scale as 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 from 6 7 1 2 3 4 #5 has been a mind-opener for me (ps. use correct syllable, 3 = Mi and b3 = May). But finally, I agree with you, to each, his/her own. Everybody has to think a little differently to make unique music :)

KVRAF
21898 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 17, 2021 6:37 am

There is no alterative Do. The fact there ought to be (there is, unless there's a basic deficiency of pedagogy) two syllables that cannot be said to have diatonic meaning in the 'relative major' demonstrates the difference beyond a doubt.
Also otherwise, the argument is 3 is 1 for purposes of argument. Which appears problematic.

Major as primary is ahistorical. One may say 'Oh, but Dorian is the second mode of major!' but 'major' is logically the seventh mode of Dorian by the same token unless the former is in fact residing in some form of governance over everything. There is no actual reason this would be the case.

KVRAF
21898 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 17, 2021 8:23 am

I just read this "This system of solfege is called movable do with do-based minor. There are also versions of solfege where Do is always C (fixed do), and another movable do that starts minor keys on la (to match relative keys rather than parallel ones)." because I became confused by the very term 'movable'. Apparently sometimes movable is in fact movable.
Sorry, I'm not clever enough to keep up with all that, the Keep It Simple, Stupid answer is it for me

KVRist
59 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada

Post Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 am

The fixed do is a common thing with piano players as far as I know... teachers as well. Been using this for years until finding it consuming too much brain power for analysis.

KVRAF
21898 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 17, 2021 9:16 am

In school I have no recollection at all of sight singing very chromatic music. So we sang 'Si' for ^7 or "12", which is the fixed do syllable for #5. I guess we'da had to go with Ti, a drink with jam and bread.

actually there are reasons I soon gravitated to thinking of my own thing in Indian solfege, Sarigama, where you'd have to say Sa is fixed ('key' isn't a thing).
Syllablization is invaluable to me as someone reliant on relative pitch. If I have a melodic idea away from any instrument (happens to me all the time), I write down syllables, it doesn't matter which of 12 is '1'.
I can tell certain things by sound such as 'I hear its B on the fifth string' but for the most part the absolute pitch is a guess.
Last edited by jancivil on Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRist
357 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Mon May 17, 2021 10:19 am

jancivil wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 8:23 am
I just read this "This system of solfege is called movable do with do-based minor.
Did it say what it is supposed to be good for?
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

KVRAF
21898 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 17, 2021 10:40 am

"(to match relative keys rather than parallel ones)"
like it's a good thing :roll:

A minor is not C major, et al. Ever, or the term key is nothing at all

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KVRist
357 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Mon May 17, 2021 11:32 am

Chord by scale step is all tonal stuff with lots of modulations and where chord’s functions are ambigious relative to key and transpostion. In modal music, there is a root and an internal relation between the tones that can cary itself. Moves of root makes no sense because then you are not in the same mode if you stick to the tones already given by first root. A dorian mode is a dorian mode and nothing else as long you stick to the root. All harmonies within will seek the root, so no need to speak of other modes as inversions of the scale, moveable Dos or what else. That we eventually called some of these passing harmonies/mediators to the root for dominant and subdominant became important in music with more root movements and modualtions e.g. modern chord progressions.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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KVRist
357 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Mon May 17, 2021 1:38 pm

Double bubble
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

KVRAF
21898 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 17, 2021 2:19 pm

Fun and/or boring factoid: I have never had the thought 'mediant harmony' or the term 'mediant' in music speak occur to me personally.

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