Does any phase adjustment plugin exist?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRian
886 posts since 8 Mar, 2009

Post Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:33 am

AKJ wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:06 am
MAutoAlign will automatically align the phase.
No it doesn't.it does what it says and finds the optimal time alignment between two signals.if you are talking about that spectral phase correlation,that's either broke or just doesn't work.it gives wildly different results on the same material.but anyways, delay cannot create optimal phase correlation.it can only ever correlate with a couple or even one group of frequencies at a time determined by the delay length.allpass filters are an example of altering the phase to an optimal phase correlation for most frequencies at the expense of group delay and the slew rate changing in transients(because of group delay)then there are options like Meldas freeform phase,but that comes with the caveats of all spectral and FIR designs.sacrificing the time domain response for a more accurate frequency response.you can't really fix phase issues anyways as a lot of what you try to do to correlate 2 signals becomes undone the minute you introduce more.they can't all correlate with one another so after a certain point phase becomes a bit of a moot point except for transients,low end and correlation in the stereo image
I

KVRian
1154 posts since 27 May, 2008

Post Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:45 am

Phase is what makes the moon go around.

KVRian
500 posts since 28 Oct, 2014

Post Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:22 am

Sounds like the Melda one is most similar to the OP request.

KVRist
175 posts since 30 Jun, 2012

Post Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:44 am

I sometimes use hornet’s elliptiq eq with metric ab multiband correlation visualiser which can be handy, but only works up to 2khz, focussing on the sides, so not sure if it would fit what your looking for. There is x-phase by ssl which is an all pass filter you can use on specific frequency bands, hopefully with x-comp going on sale recently they’ve started their price reduction pleasing engine back up.

An option for rectifying problems caused by excessive filtering is unfilter by zynaptiq, picked it up recently and can work wonders restoring sounds, individually, on busses or the master, demo’d it a while back but wasn’t impressed as I didn’t really understand it, can be hit or miss but I need more time with it to understand it better, when it works tho, its an amazing tool.

Only other thing I can think of outside of what’s been mentioned is maat RSPhaseShifter plugin, but that might be more suited for aligning phase problems using multi mic setups.

KVRian
886 posts since 8 Mar, 2009

Post Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:59 am

mister-rz wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:44 am
mentioned is maat RSPhaseShifter plugin, but that might be more suited for aligning phase problems using multi mic setups.
Also just an allpass filter.phase rotator=allpass filter.order of filter and corner frequency determine degree of phase rotation
I

KVRAF
1670 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Post Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:29 am

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Banned
1796 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg

Post Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:31 am

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KVRAF
5320 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Post Mon May 17, 2021 1:22 am

I have a kind of general question - if I work with strictly mono signals (kick and bass, especially in psytrance context) - does a dedicated phase alignment plugin offer me something I can't acheive by moving the audio tracks across the timeline or using a sample delay plugin?

It seems that everyone and their dog is using Pha-979 for aligning the phase of the bass to the kick tail where they overlap. So far I somehow managed to get by with free FaSampleDelay plugin. I wonder if it would make sense to uprgade to Pha-979. What would it give me? More precise timing? Backwards phase shift (which I seem to be able to do just by moving the audio on the bass channel to the left)?

What I'm trying to achieve is shown e.g. here (at 25:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcMoh1T7_Ak&t=1539s
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... travels-ep

KVRAF
1670 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Post Mon May 17, 2021 3:17 am

All-pass filters will change the timing of different frequencies on one track. That changes how transients and fast sweeps (i.e. kicks) sound, and allows things to be pieced together in a different "axis" to overall time shifting.

KVRian
886 posts since 8 Mar, 2009

Post Mon May 17, 2021 3:23 am

recursive one wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:22 am
I have a kind of general question - if I work with strictly mono signals (kick and bass, especially in psytrance context) - does a dedicated phase alignment plugin offer me something I can't acheive by moving the audio tracks across the timeline or using a sample delay plugin?

It seems that everyone and their dog is using Pha-979 for aligning the phase of the bass to the kick tail where they overlap. So far I somehow managed to get by with free FaSampleDelay plugin. I wonder if it would make sense to uprgade to Pha-979. What would it give me? More precise timing? Backwards phase shift (which I seem to be able to do just by moving the audio on the bass channel to the left)?

What I'm trying to achieve is shown e.g. here (at 25:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcMoh1T7_Ak&t=1539s
Didn't watch the vid as i abhor Psy Tarnce lol :clown: ..anyways, PHA is a linear phase rotator. It will rotate the phase of all frequencies by an equal amount without a timeshift. A minimum phase allpass filter aka a phase rotator will rotate whatever the corner frequency is by a set amount based on the order of the filter, but also delay frequencies either side of it to rotate that frequency. As always, the caveat with the former method is what is commonly referred to as "preringing" and a contortion of the first few samples of transients due to the nature of FIR filters, in the latter example the caveat is group delay and a slewing of the time domain in general to accomplish that phase shift

Think of an allpass filter as a regular filter, just that it doesn't change the magnitude of any frequencies. It lets them "all pass"through, only the phase is altered for all frequencies

Think of a linear phase rotator as the same thing as any old linear phase filter, but the phase shift is the same for all frequencies at the expense of the impulse, and again, no change in the amplitude of frequencies
I

KVRian
1150 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Mon May 17, 2021 3:36 am

The main reason I use it is convenience. Sure you can achieve the same sliding audio around, but that takes time, it's much quicker and easier to just load up PHA-979 and twist a knob to achieve the same result. You have to decide whether spending $50 or so is worth it for the time saved (and reduced risk of RSI/carpal tunnel :wink: )
Always Read the Manual!

KVRAF
5320 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Post Mon May 17, 2021 3:37 am

Thanks for the great explanation!
TIMT wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:23 am
.anyways, PHA is a linear phase rotator. It will rotate the phase of all frequencies by an equal amount without a timeshift. ... As always, the caveat with the former method is what is commonly referred to as "preringing" and a contortion of the first few samples of transients due to the nature of FIR filters,

Think of a linear phase rotator as the same thing as any old linear phase filter, but the phase shift is the same for all frequencies at the expense of the impulse, and again, no change in the amplitude of frequencies
So basically the difference bewteen using Pha-979 and the methods involving delaying/moving the audio is that the phase alignment is acheived without a time shift (but it may add a pre-ring). is that correct?

I undesrtand Pha-979 allows time shift as well (incluing negative), so I guess it would be handy to have such a tool and choose what method works best for a given situation (time shift or phase shift).
TIMT wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:23 am
i abhor Psy Tarnce lol :clown: .
You just didn't hear the best examples I guess 8)
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... travels-ep

KVRAF
5320 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Post Mon May 17, 2021 3:42 am

PieBerger wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:36 am
The main reason I use it is convenience. Sure you can achieve the same sliding audio around, but that takes time, it's much quicker and easier to just load up PHA-979 and twist a knob to achieve the same result. You have to decide whether spending $50 or so is worth it for the time saved (and reduced risk of RSI/carpal tunnel :wink: )
You know what? I also don't have LFO tool! :o (I use Rapid as an insert effect for sidechain, or an oldschool method with an actual sidechained compressor)

I see, yep, I think i'll finally get that Pha-979. And the LFO Tool. It's time to make my life a bit easier I guess :D
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... travels-ep

KVRian
1150 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Mon May 17, 2021 5:22 am

recursive one wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:42 am
PieBerger wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:36 am
The main reason I use it is convenience. Sure you can achieve the same sliding audio around, but that takes time, it's much quicker and easier to just load up PHA-979 and twist a knob to achieve the same result. You have to decide whether spending $50 or so is worth it for the time saved (and reduced risk of RSI/carpal tunnel :wink: )
You know what? I also don't have LFO tool! :o (I use Rapid as an insert effect for sidechain, or an oldschool method with an actual sidechained compressor)

I see, yep, I think i'll finally get that Pha-979. And the LFO Tool. It's time to make my life a bit easier I guess :D
Go on, treat yourself :) If you don't need the filters or MIDI out capabilities i.e. you just need volume ducking, Duck by Devious Machines is worth investigating as you can save yourself $20. If I didn't already own VolumeShaper, it would be my first choice.
Always Read the Manual!

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