To 4K or stay with 2K Monitor ?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRist
128 posts since 24 Oct, 2006

Post Mon May 17, 2021 7:08 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:02 pm
echosystm wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 12:25 pm
Here is some actual science
Care to provide a link to your source? You won't take my word for it but you expect me to take your word that this is "actual science"? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Wikipedia and some math. I figured you could find it yourself, if you wanted to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity
The maximum angular resolution of the human eye is 28 arc seconds or 0.47 arc minutes,[19] this gives an angular resolution of 0.008 degrees, and at a distance of 1 km corresponds to 136 mm. This is equal to 0.94 arc minutes per line pair (one white and one black line), or 0.016 degrees. For a pixel pair (one white and one black pixel) this gives a pixel density of 128 pixels per degree (PPD).

6/6 vision is defined as the ability to resolve two points of light separated by a visual angle of one minute of arc, corresponding to 60 PPD, or about 290–350 pixels per inch for a display on a device held 250 to 300 mm from the eye.[20]
The part about 6/6 (AKA 20/20) vision is the relevant part. The first part is the best possible human vision. Regardless, with those numbers you can do the calculations yourself, if you don't believe me.

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon May 17, 2021 8:22 pm

Yeah, I don't get how that assertion is problematic let alone controversial. 1080 on this display and I'd know something is off.

"I don't see it" is not a very strong argument against. The thing has been studied. Documentation is available.

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KVRian
731 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Thu May 20, 2021 1:45 am

BONES wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:46 pm
We had the opposite where I work, amongst a bunch of very experienced motion designers. We had the option of 27" 2.5k monitors or 32" 4 k monitors and, after a month or so of testing, we decided unanimously to go with the 27" 2.5k screens (Dell U2719D). Typing this on mine now, I simply cannot imagine text that looks sharper than this.
I have to agree - these Dell U2719D are fantastic monitors. I am lucky enough to have two of these and find it really excellent for music production. I can have a whole screen for arrangement, and another half screen for midi/audio editing and have space for plug ins along side.

I also think that *for now* 4k would bring little extra to the table at a good working distance.

For audio (Cubase/Bitwig + plug ins), I think 4k would make quite a few things too small to use, and enlarging by 150%-200% would also be waste as you'd have less useful screen real estate.

I also think 2 x 27" 2k is much better value than the equivalent resolution in an an ultrawide monitor. And also cheaper to replace if a screen takes a ding, as you only need to replace one 27" and not one ultrawide. *heed this warning :hihi:

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KVRian
731 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Sun May 23, 2021 2:41 pm

_leras wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 1:45 am
I also think that *for now* 4k would bring little extra to the table at a good working distance.
Since writing this I had a session with Pro Tools on an iMac with a 27" Retina screen. I have to say the screen did look really nice, nicer than I expected.

Not 100% sure I'd love the gloss screen in my own space, but did appreciate the smoother and sharper text.

I still think a dual 27" 2k can give better value and a good enough experience - but at some point screen of that quality will come down in price and it will be a good thing!

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KVRAF
3989 posts since 6 Nov, 2009

Post Sun May 23, 2021 3:07 pm

It's really simple. Go to a place where you can see monitors and see if the grainy 1080p pixels bug you or not on a monitor the same size. If you can't see a difference, definitely don't waste money on 4K. Even my 20 inch monitor bugs me a little at 1080p, but my phone is only like 720p and I can't see the pixels.

KVRist
271 posts since 17 Mar, 2010

Post Sun May 23, 2021 4:30 pm

I have my Logic mixer on a second LG 27" 4k monitor - it's fantastic. Was hesitant, given the extra cost for the 4k monitor. But having higher resolution with a large number of Mixer Channels is great. Also, macro arranging in the Tracks Area for large projects on the 4k monitor, is helpful. I use my MacBook Pro monitor for editing and things that require detail, versus the 4k monitor. Logic makes it easy to setup multiple Tracks Area and Mixer windows - customized for each display. Having a 27" 4k monitor only, would be a challenge. Complementing the MacBook Pro monitor with a secondary 4k monitor, is well worth it. My 2 cents.....

KVRist
345 posts since 25 Aug, 2019

Post Mon May 24, 2021 1:48 pm

Many good old VSTs are still not resizable, which makes them unusable in 4k of these sizes.

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KVRAF
8887 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon May 24, 2021 8:37 pm

roman.i wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 1:48 pm
Many good old VSTs are still not resizable, which makes them unusable in 4k of these sizes.
Most DAWs will scale them for you accordingly (Bitwig, Live, Cubase, Studio One, Reason). Obviously they won't look as great as Arturia or U-He stuff with high-res bitmaps, but they will be usable until the devs decide to upgrade them.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRAF
8887 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon May 24, 2021 11:57 pm

revvy wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:39 am
My 5K 27 iMac looks all good apart from some plugins which are teeny tiny. For them I just use the handy Cmnd + mouse scroll which zooms the whole screen, very handy. What's the 'Doze equivalent for me to use at work? Never found one...
Which DAW you're using? All of the ones I have (Bitwig, Live, Cubase, Studio One, Reason) can stretch the plugin if it's not DPI-aware by itself.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Suspended
2638 posts since 15 Feb, 2020

Post Tue May 25, 2021 12:05 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 11:57 pm
revvy wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:39 am
My 5K 27 iMac looks all good apart from some plugins which are teeny tiny. For them I just use the handy Cmnd + mouse scroll which zooms the whole screen, very handy. What's the 'Doze equivalent for me to use at work? Never found one...
Which DAW you're using? All of the ones I have (Bitwig, Live, Cubase, Studio One, Reason) can stretch the plugin if it's not DPI-aware by itself.
Logic these days (but I also have Live 9.)

Most annoying is Kontakt stuff which isn't old it's just.....Kontakt....
I lost my heart in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

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KVRAF
8887 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue May 25, 2021 12:11 am

revvy wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 12:05 am
antic604 wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 11:57 pm
revvy wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:39 am
My 5K 27 iMac looks all good apart from some plugins which are teeny tiny. For them I just use the handy Cmnd + mouse scroll which zooms the whole screen, very handy. What's the 'Doze equivalent for me to use at work? Never found one...
Which DAW you're using? All of the ones I have (Bitwig, Live, Cubase, Studio One, Reason) can stretch the plugin if it's not DPI-aware by itself.
Logic these days (but I also have Live 9.)

Most annoying is Kontakt stuff which isn't old it's just.....Kontakt....
Weird that Logic doesn't do this.

And I also now see that for Live it's only available on Windows:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... or-support
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRist
128 posts since 24 Oct, 2006

Post Tue May 25, 2021 12:03 pm

I decided to just not support companies that still don't have high DPI support. The first Retina MacBook came out nearly 10 years ago. They have had more than enough time.

cnt
KVRian
507 posts since 9 Mar, 2001

Post Tue May 25, 2021 12:34 pm

I have perfect eye sight/vision. 4k looks a bit better in SOME situations, VERY nice in others - and totally unnecessary in a lot of common tasks (like web browsing). It is not worth the money nor the hassle with all the programs and applications that doesn't support 4k - or the hassle with the "zoom" both at OS level and in applications. If I really wanted to run 4k I would want more real-estate on my screen, otherwise it's just waste of screen/GPU. It's not that a big of a difference IMHO.
If you work with 4k video/graphics I would go for it, but not for DAW/music purposes only.

And don't forget, so many plugins, even good "old" ones, even Kontakt, does looks like cr*p in 4k anyways. To me, it's a bit stupid to run 4k and then zoom everything in by 150/200%. It doesn't make sense for the 5%'ish gain of "clearness" in *some* applications.

I'm more than happy with my Ultra Widescreen (3840x1200). No hassle with two monitors and everything is 100% zoomed in, ie everything just works and looks great.

My suggestion. If you get a chance, try 4k setup with your DAW program/apps/plugins YOU use, before getting into the hype..

(I'm talking as a Windows user btw)

KVRist
128 posts since 24 Oct, 2006

Post Tue May 25, 2021 4:17 pm

The gain in text quality is a lot more than a 5% improvement. I refuse to work on a non-4K screen, at this point.

All the software I use has supported high DPI for years, excluding some NI software that I was more than happy to find a reason to sell. The Apple ecosystem is probably ahead of the PC world though, in this regard. MacBooks have had high DPI screens for the better part of 10 years now and PCs took a while to catch up.

KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 2 Feb, 2005

Post Wed May 26, 2021 7:05 pm

My LG 4K 31.5" Monitor finally arrived last week. And I've tested out various DAW which I know some of you already knew the result. So bear with me as a new 4K user.

Windows 10 set to 150% (Recommend). Cubase 10/Bitwig 3.3/Live 11/S1 5.2 are all bright and clear. UI and manual text of Reason 11 suite is smaller than my previous 27" but also clear to see (no blur I mean).

However, when using R11 suite plugin with Bitwig, the size is okay enough for my eyes but the UI and manual text was a bit blur to me. But it doesn't have this issue in other DAWs I mentioned above.

Hope Reason 12 really fix this issue.

thanks!
Cowby

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