Chord progressions and song structure

[Hink]

I gave my explanation above...sprry it appears I made a mistake...typically I do a soft delete...I thonk I cant on half a hand how many times I have done this...I am human...I make mistakes...all I can do is say I am sorry, chances are I was on my phone like I am now.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Never mind, man. Sht happens. The thread was not "that" good anyway, but it had some stuff that may be worth reposting in other threads. Sooner or later we will repeat ourselves, anyway, so whatever pearls lost in the sea, the waves shall bring them back to the beach.

[vurt]

must have been the jazz talk, very controversial jazz is!
so much so, i even went a bit yoda there

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Well, my opponent thought that Jazz was not that controversial to classical music, but rather they were the same because they both had dominants or something like that. So how about a little classical music Charlie Parker style or a swinging Jazz tune a la Mozart?

[vurt]

compared to merzbow they're more similar than you might think

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Depends on the extent he uses dominants. If so, it is all the same. However, it may be hard to figure if he does, I'll give you that.

[vurt]

Depends on the extent he uses dominants. If so, it is all the same. However, it may be hard to figure if he does, I'll give you that.

it's often hard to figure out what instruments he's using let alone what he's doing with them?

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

it's often hard to figure out what instruments he's using let alone what he's doing with them?

I am not sure I want to know.

[Functional]

Yeah I kind of dont understand why the thread was removed. I hope it's not because of that whole jazz/classical discussion - it was OT sure but like, this subforum is not that active in the first place and making new threads on the topics that have their origins in other topics is... I don't think it's any better. I'm a bit sad because honestly the topic is pretty important as it's a very common and harmful misconception that I tried to deal with.

If it was a mistake or some sort of accident, then ehh, shit happens.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

the topic is pretty important as it's a very common and harmful misconception that I tried to deal with.

Yes, it is pure evil that some people claim that there are systematic differences between classical music and Jazz, but fortunately you saved us all, and the Nobel Prize is probably on its way already. Our hero

At my music school back in the days, you would not pass an exam in Classical Choral Harmonization if you showed up with a Jazzy big band arrangement and vice versa, but after your revolution that kind of evil will likely come to an end.

[Functional]

Would you pass an exam in classical chorale harmonization if you showed up with a chamber music arrangement for string quartet? No? That must mean then, that the have systemic differences to warrant that their underlying practices are actually entirely insulated despite if they happened simultaneously not only on the same period but even by the same composer.

Which is to say, that this is also not how this works. Before you make these comparisons, you should at least give a bit of thought to them - try and at least extrapolate whenever their ridiculous nature can be figured in just five seconds.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Make up your own music theory all you want, sweetheart, just do not apply to any music school or university claiming classical music and jazz is the same style of music using same principles. That is the best advice I can give you from my experience

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

That must mean then, that the have systemic differences to warrant that their underlying practices are actually entirely insulated despite if they happened simultaneously not only on the same period but even by the same composer.

So there is difference between Jazz and classical music and between styles within classical music as well. Big surprise. That does not support your argument that classical music and Jazz is the same. Shall we check the syllogism?

1. My premise: Choral harmonization and a Jazz arrangement are not the same
2. Your premise: Choral harmonization and chamber music are not the same.
Your conclusion: Therefore there is no systematic differences between Jazz and classical music.

Wow. Non sequitur. FYI, you would surely find more shared principles between chorals and chamber music from the same period that you would ever find between classical chorals and Jazz. Goes without saying.

Almost as good as your former theory:

1. Classical music makes use of dominants
2. Jazz makes use of dominants
-------------------------------------------------------
Therefore there is no systematic differences between classical music and jazz.


Well, I am good at that kind of logic as well. Check this out:

1. You are made of atoms
2. A sht-pile is made of atoms
------------------------------------
Therefore you are a sht-pile

A walk in the park. This discussion is hilarius entertaintment at best. Easy to spot the frauds without experience around here.

[Functional]

If all you can do is keep saying that I've said anywhere that the two are same when I specifically said that two exist in a continuum of ideas with classical idiom being part of the genesis of jazz, then I don't think I have that much to say to you to be honest - you're mostly fighting against strawmans which at this point I wager is all you can do

But I do find it hilarious that a person who seems to be keen on Fuxian counterpoint (which is considered outdated even in books that took their cues directly from it, i.e. CiC by Salzer & Schachter) is giving me talks about how I would not pass in some educational facility - without even acknowledging how vastly the ideas even vary not only between the facilities but even between the professors inside them. In fact, in the opening chapter of CiC, it is argued that most educational facilities either educate on counterpoint poorly or educate things under the umbrella that are not counterpoint. In the same book, it is argued that counterpoint is the basis of tonal harmony, not some "chord theory" as you put it.

So please, do at least your homework before these lovely talks you're givin'

[donkey tugger]

G, D, A7sus4..f**k about with the order a bit, job done.