To all Cableguys Shaperbox users!!!

[Trancit]

What´s your opinion on this topic...
I wrote more or less the same as feature request to Cableguys and if you guys agree, it would be nice to support this request to really make it happen as it´s imho the only solution...

It´s not Cableguys fault but the shortcomings of our DAWs gives us quite some trouble by using Shaperbox with external triggers... respectively trouble with non existing PDC...

Ableton:
If Shaperbox has to be used after latency causing plugins... the transport syncing is not latency compensated...
In such situations and if non 4 on the floor rhythms are used there is just the option to trigger Shaperbox via Midi...
But as you cannot route one Midi track to multiple targets, you need a seperate Midi track for each Shaperbox instance ...
30 Shaperboxes = 30 additional tracks
80 Shaperboxes = 80 additional tracks...
...just there because the DAWs work in such a bad way... cluttering up the project for basically nothing...

Cubase, Studio One, Cakewalk... fully latency compensated but the same nonsense with Midi triggers... each target requires a seperate track...

What a silly system and it´s beyond my logic why all of them just don´t care...!!

In FL Studio it´s even worse as Midi triggers to effect plugins are not latency compensated... means in such situations there is no way to use Shaperbox anymore...

So Midi cannot be the solution since most likely in our DAWs there will change nothing in the next years if ever...

But... (and this was my feature request) what about audio sidechaining...???
Shaperbox has a sidechain input for the compressor...

And Sidechain routing is fully supported and latency compensated in every single DAW...
You can route a sidechain signal to as much targets as you like and it´s always compensated....

What about using a sidechain signal to just trigger the envelopes??

I am not sure if there would be technical limitations I don´t understand ...
but wouldn´t that be the solution???

The accuracy and timing should be much higher than with Midi... it´s 100% supported in every DAW and Shaperbox already has a sidechain input...

Am I missing something here... this solution is that obvious that I wonder why this isn´t possible already...

What do you think??

[billcarroll]

This is exactly why Xfer LFO Tool has an offset adjustment right next to the scope button. Ableton has long had issues with not compensating latency properly for non-native plugins.

The DAW really should be doing the latency compensation. An offset feature could be useful in Shaperbox.

Until then you could use LFO Tool.

[dermage]

You can route midi to multiple tracks in ableton. use an instrument rack. There's an example I think on xfers homepage somewhere. Im using it since years like that.


Ah found on cableguys hp now too:
https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html
Also with example project. Method B.

[Trancit]

You can route midi to multiple tracks in ableton. use an instrument rack. There's an example I think on xfers homepage somewhere. Im using it since years like that.


Ah found on cableguys hp now too:
https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html
Also with example project. Method B.

And what do you do in Cubase/S1/Cakewalk/FL Studio???

And even if... I find this more than a wonky workaround than a suitable solution as instead of 80 midi tracks you would have to use 80 external instruments instead in the group...

[thermal]

Regardless of the latency issue, being able to slip/rotate the lfo back or forth in time would be sick!

[Trancit]

This is exactly why Xfer LFO Tool has an offset adjustment right next to the scope button. Ableton has long had issues with not compensating latency properly for non-native plugins.

The DAW really should be doing the latency compensation. An offset feature could be useful in Shaperbox.

Until then you could use LFO Tool.

But wouldn´t be audio sidechain more elegant than having to adjust everything manually?

[Trancit]

Regardless of the latency issue, being able to slip/rotate the lfo back or forth in time would be sick!

But that´s already possible with the arrow buttons...

[thermal]

Regardless of the latency issue, being able to slip/rotate the lfo back or forth in time would be sick!

But that´s already possible with the arrow buttons...

Yes, but it's not a good solution imo. Buttons are fine if you want to shift by a certain number of subdivisions. Not so much for groove control or latency compensation. The offset should ideally be freely adjustable in milliseconds with a knob or similar. Clicking is tedious and disturbing when listening for fine changes.

This is on the side of what the thread is about, but...I'd like perfect latency compensation AND the possibility of smoothly slipping the LFO around while using my ears and not my eyes

Edit: Your sidechain trigger solution is a great idea. I should have written that first!

[fairlyclose]

Very nice idea

[morphex]

Latency is one of those issues we've had to deal with for a long time. Shaperbox and other plugins, such as Zynaptiq's Wormhole, sound awesome. But when you're going after a more rhythmic and animated feel, and not simply static settings, timing can be critical. In Logic Pro, I'll bounce down the track as audio and then fix any timing issues if needed. I would definitely support any developer that can make this a technical issue of the past!

[Trancit]

Yes, but it's not a good solution imo. Buttons are fine if you want to shift by a certain number of subdivisions. Not so much for groove control or latency compensation. The offset should ideally be freely adjustable in milliseconds with a knob or similar. Clicking is tedious and disturbing when listening for fine changes.

This is on the side of what the thread is about, but...I'd like perfect latency compensation AND the possibility of smoothly slipping the LFO around while using my ears and not my eyes

Edit: Your sidechain trigger solution is a great idea. I should have written that first!

Yes, of course... it´s not a suitable solution for latency compensation...

[Jakob / Cableguys]

You can SHIFT-click the left/right arrow buttons for finer control, but yes, it's not ideal. The issue (also with setting a time in milliseconds) is that Ableton's latency error might change if you do changes in your project - add another return track, add another plugin with high latency.. but the MIDI workaround is stable, always correct, and actually sample-accurate (although MIDI as such is not, the MIDI trigger is sent to the correct sample position).

So yes, Method B here, if you don't want to set up multiple MIDI tracks: https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html

And of course we're happy for everyone who emails Ableton support about it. It's a bug, and we've contacted them multiple times since 2011. It's good if they see that users care. Other DAWs proof that it's absolutely possible to do it right.

Because someone mentioned Cubase: It works perfectly there, as it does in most DAWs (Pro Tools and Logic sometimes have their issues too though on complex setups, if I recall correctly..).

[Russell Grand]

I dunno, I think your headline could use another exclamation point or two.

[Trancit]

You can SHIFT-click the left/right arrow buttons for finer control, but yes, it's not ideal. The issue (also with setting a time in milliseconds) is that Ableton's latency error might change if you do changes in your project - add another return track, add another plugin with high latency.. but the MIDI workaround is stable, always correct, and actually sample-accurate (although MIDI as such is not, the MIDI trigger is sent to the correct sample position).

So yes, Method B here, if you don't want to set up multiple MIDI tracks: https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html

And of course we're happy for everyone who emails Ableton support about it. It's a bug, and we've contacted them multiple times since 2011. It's good if they see that users care. Other DAWs proof that it's absolutely possible to do it right.

That´s all good and well but latency is just one part, Cubase, Studio One, Cakewalk will probably never offer a solution to trigger multiple targets with one midi track and the probability that Ableton will improve their PDC is more likely zero...

What about the idea to use Audio sidechain as envelope trigger...

Is there anything negative other than that it needs to be implemented?
I can understand you being perhaps tired for taking care of the shortcomings the lazyness of the DAW devs causes but I'm afraid no help can be expected from them.

Because someone mentioned Cubase: It works perfectly there, as it does in most DAWs (Pro Tools and Logic sometimes have their issues too though on complex setups, if I recall correctly..).

They work well in terms of PDC but have the same issue that if you are in the need of having to trigger Shaperbox via midi because of making hiphop/trap/breakbeat/DnB etc... a usual track of mine contains about 50 Shaperboxes for sidechaining... = 50 midi tracks just for triggering them!!

And even in Ableton...having to load 50 external instruments just to trigger another plugin is something else than efficient...

[Jakob / Cableguys]

So yes, Method B here, if you don't want to set up multiple MIDI tracks: https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html

That´s all good and well but latency is just one part, Cubase, Studio One, Cakewalk will probably never offer a solution to trigger multiple targets with one midi track...

Fair point. Let's see..