MTurboReverb: rebuilding "r" and other combplex modules, best practices for building without randomization

[Annabanna]

Is it possible to recreate "r", "cc", "fdn" etc. using an algorithm composed of simpler modules? If so, what is the algorithm? Tuts/manual seem to imply these are comlex arrangements of simpler modules, but I'm not seeing a formula for recreating them, and I'm not sure if that's because they CAN'T be... like perhaps the submodules themselves are available, but the syntax doesn't allow for their some of the ways in which they are connected.

I ask in part because I'd like to try variations on the structure, but also in part because I'm finding the randomization frustrating and would like to eliminate it wherever it is practical to do so. If the randomization is doing something critical that is impractical any other way like slightly modifying each reflection in a nested module that would otherwise require an insanely long algorithm to mimic, then perhaps I'll need to leave that much randomized, but I would at the very least like to use constants wherever else it is possible to do so in order to bake as much of my desired sound as possible directly into the algorithm without relying on RNG.

I'd be interested in hearing an particulars about WHICH parameters should or should not be defined in common scenarios in order to achieve this. In general, I'm after a larger than life 80's inspired sound, so I need big and punchy, but not necessarily "realistic" The only example I could think of where I would want randomization is the one I mentioned above, but I'm not entirely sure that's how it works. If I have a nested module with an undefined parameter, is the seed then creating a DIFFERENT randomized value for it for each nested iteration? If so, is there something I should look into to help reign in a given parameter's range of variation?

[modumo]

Hi,
read the manual Alg.- "Sythax" - there you will find "Helper" Modules, "Basic" Modules (C,A), Complex Module, etc...
Than search in the www for Block diagrams of say Schroeder Reverb ALG. you will find these are build of Combs and Allpass Elements connected in a certain way! And these are the simplest elements to create a ReverbALG. As Melda uses a "Synthax/Text" based methode the interconnection of such Elements is limited. Therefore the "Complex Modules" come into play.

I totally agree with you - in which the randomization as is actually - doens't help within the evolution / building process of a Tail-Algorithm (it just shows "another needle in the heystack" - if you are lucky your hearing is not damgeded . I would wish to have a more supporting randomization where you can specify what and what not to randomize - this would speed up the learning curve and the progress to a well behaving Tail-ALG.

I have noticed -when you specify to many coeffients in the ALG (Text-String) - the "Designer Panel" looses useability and so will the Seed Generator!!??!!??

All 80's Reverbs where limited in Samplerate/and Bit resolution, so something you should take into consideration! Grain/Harsh basis Sound - lack of bandwith and calcuation resource back than!
I found it quite helpfull to focus on ERL by importing IR's of such older Hardware devices - to get a close result. Than you will notice the LATE part - you can choose some of the MELDA TAIL-Presets and you will come close easily.
I did this with my B2 from 2C Audio (Which is software - which makes IR-TRansfer very EASY) and it pretty much gets the Character - but it's not identical - which is good to me!

MTurboVerb has a great potential - but hard to "squeeze it out"

All my best

[Annabanna]

Hi,
read the manual Alg.- "Sythax"...

I'm on my third or fourth re-read of the syntax portion of the manual at this point. The manual itself gives a description of the Schroeder topology and a few useful examples along the way.

I actually tend not to like the lofi quality, or washed out congestion of many 80's verbs and especially dislike hearing the individual taps on something like on Schooly D's "Gucci Time" which for me ruins an otherwise great sounding reverb. The snare/clap verb on Nu Shooz' "I Can't Wait" is a good example of my starting point, but I'm definitely going for a cleaner, smoother, and sometimes denser version of the 80's thing minimal clutter and no early reflections or individually perceptible taps to detract from the rhythm.

The tuts and manual are good overall, but I often find myself taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back with the algorithms as the randomness often has MORE of a perceptible sonic impact than the algorithm tweaks I'm working on.

I don't know much about actual 80's algos, but I think what I'm after is relatively simple. I don't need or want much of the randomness anyway since unnatural uniformity isn't really a problem for my target aesthetic... though of course issues like density shift over time and resonances still are.

At the moment, I'm just working with topologies simple enough that if I were to replace the cc module, for instance, text syntax to recreate it, the algorithm should still be easily human readable.

If I understand you correctly, the text syntax simply does not allow me to recreate the more complex modules in general, but just to be clear that I haven't missed something: Is there any way to specifically create the "cc" or "r" modules? I'd love to do a different version of r that varies the fdn's and other building blocks.

Also: I keep being frustrated by copy/paste not working between text editor and allgorithm field, no copy/paste/save for algorithm designer panel, and no copy/paste/save for EQ tab. Am I missing something, or do all these items have to be recreated by hand each time?

[modumo]

Hi,
it's very alike on my side - tedious and time consuming!!
Copy and Paste do work (I use V15 I), when you use the right mouse button (when you are over the ALG-String field) a pop up menue will show the "paste" entry (Strg C, Strg V - key commands do not work here), always use the popup menue function in the ALG-Text-String field (press right mouse button)!
From my understanding CC can be created by using the so called NESTED modules (CN, XN, CNI CNB, XNB, CNB),
here you can specify Parameters for decay and time on each nested Module, on these you can control the output as well as the feedback!