Reason 12 announced

[future-bit]

That's why RRP was released in VST2 format.

Wrong. RRP = VST3
Reason Standalone open only VST2.

[antic604]

That's why RRP was released in VST2 format.

Wrong. RRP = VST3
Reason Standalone open only VST2.

Yes, sorry that's what I meant and you can clearly see it from the context of my post

[THE INTRANCER]

I got Reason Lite / Rack free vie a Focusrite offer because I own some interfaces by them. Besides that, which RE developers are actually rescaling their RE's to actually make it worth upgrading to have bigger RE's in your DAW of choice or are we now being sucked into a Reason only environment with the Rack being abandoned for other DAWs... ?

[ghettosynth]

It does feel like they're looking for something that they can't seem to find in terms of business model. If you think about it though, Reason new is a very competitively priced collection of plugins plus rack with an integrated store as well as being a great subhost for your existing VSTs.

Reason DAW can host VST2, RRP cannot. And still no VST3 even as one by one devs are succumbing to pressure from Steinberg to drop VST2. So as a VST host we are getting very mixed messages on how complete/useful this is supposed to be.

I thought that I had responded to this, I guess not. Anyway, excellent point. That does make the rack less useful as a plugin. I have only just upgraded to 11 and I didn't realize that difference existed because I haven't done much more than loaded it once or twice.

I think that if RRP is going to stick as a rack it will need to also, itself, be a VST host.

[ShawnG]

which RE developers are actually rescaling their RE's to actually make it worth upgrading to have bigger RE's in your DAW of choice

All RE's since the launch of the format have been required to have been submitted in Hi-res. they've been downsampled to the current res until the new version launches. no rescaling needed.

[imrae]

Reason DAW can host VST2, RRP cannot. And still no VST3 even as one by one devs are succumbing to pressure from Steinberg to drop VST2. So as a VST host we are getting very mixed messages on how complete/useful this is supposed to be.

You're confusing things. A DAW can host whatever plugins they like, incl. VST2 and Steinberg cannot pressure anyone from it. What Steinberg can do, is not support any NEW plugins being released in VST2 format. That's why RRP was released in VST2 format.

I think my point was fine, but maybe you misinterpreted my "can/cannot" as "could/could not"? To spell it out in tedious detail:

• The DAW named Reason does not host VST3. While this could be implemented, end-users cannot use VST3 plugins inside the current version (and, seemingly, the next version).
• Reason Rack Plugin (RRP) does not host VST2 or VST3, and so RRP users cannot run any VST plugins within RRP.
• In practice, developers (e.g. Audio Thing) are discontinuing support for the VST2 platform and moving to VST3-only updates. I infer that this is related to pressure from Steinberg, given that
  • I haven't noticed a major transition from VST2 to VST3 in recent years from hosts (apart from Steinberg hosts)
  • chatter in the developers forum here suggests that VST2 is not a difficult or unpopular platform to maintain compared to VST3.
  • Steinberg recently made a very hostile licensing revision and do not seem to be interested in open discussion around this transition.

Taking these points together:

• The audio plugin ecosystem is moving away from VST2 (albeit for bad reasons)
• It is not clear that Reason will be a useful plugin host in that ecosystem

[WatchTheGuitar]

I’m not using the Reason DAW at all, but could you not host a VST2 plugin that can host VST3s inside it like Patchwork or Unify?

[imrae]

You could, but a major benefit of hosting VSTs in Reason is that you get to assign knobs and send modulation into them from Reason devices. An additional hosting layer in the middle is going to make that setup even clunkier than it already is.

[ghettosynth]

It is not clear that Reason will be a useful plugin host in that ecosystem

Granted, but, it is still a useful plugin host inside of reason and it's reasonable to expect that VST3 support in Reason will come sooner than later. As is common, they tend to put features that will sell updates in the .0 releases and reserve utility stuff for the .x, x>0 releases.

I feel like we are at that place in the VST2->VST3 transition that we were in with the 32->64 bit transition. It's far from over and there are a few years left yet in the cycle.

That said, if they don't add VST hosting to the rack plugin then it is less useful as a plugin host, but, frankly, still a good value in terms of proprietary racks, e.g., Soundtoys.

From a competitive POV though, it's possible that they don't want to include VST hosting in the rack because not doing so makes REs more interesting to non Reason users. If you want to use something in the rack, you have to buy the RE version of a thing. Once you have that RE version of a thing, the rack lets you use it as a VST. So you may prefer the RE version of a thing over the VST version of a thing, for some things. If you're a firm playing the long game this might be an important POV. Hosting VSTs in the DAW stops the bleeding from DAW users who want to host VSTS, but not hosting them in RRP may generate more business for the RE store. Obviously they thought hosting plugins in Reason was good for their business model.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

I often read that users think Reason should continue working on its DAW features instead of focusing so much on it as rack/plugin. However, since I only need some basics and have it already, I keep wondering what people miss in particular. Does anyone here knows and would like to share? It is not a hot debate question, just for my information.

[chk071]

People want features, features, features. Maybe as a justification to spend money. (It's really the same thing everywhere.)

I'm sure Reason is perfectly fine to do any kind of music with it. Just like version 1.0 was. Back in the days, it was the no.1 tool on universities IIRC.

That said, I'm sure they'd do the right thing, concentrating on the rack plugin. I always said that they can't compete with VST hosts (in terms of coverage), when they open Reason up to VST. Doing the rack plugin was a master move.

[imrae]

I often read that users think Reason should continue working on its DAW features instead of focusing so much on it as rack/plugin. However, since I only need some basics and have it already, I keep wondering what people miss in particular. Does anyone here knows and would like to share? It is not a hot debate question, just for my information.

Here's a Sound On Sound article from 10 years ago listing 4 conspicuously missing features: track folders, fader groups, markers, track freezing. As far as I know these still haven't been added.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... k-freezing

Lots of reasonable suggestions in this ReasonTalk thread: https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... &t=7513613

For me (as discussed earlier I think?) the lack of clip linking/looping is a total workflow-killer and Blocks are not an appropriate substitute.

They should also really stop trying to sell the outdated ReCycle standalone application and add a bit of polish (or at least a sensitivity control) to the transient detection in Reason. Reason could be a great environment for creating, recording and exporting transient-marked loops but at the moment it's rather janky.

[SLiC]

Its a tempting purchase with the current 30% off sale upgrade from Lite (which was I think free)...about £135 for 11 with a free upgrade to 12. I don't particular get on with the DAW, but its starting to look like decent value for the full rack VST assuming they get the scaling/hi dpi stuff right.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Here's a Sound On Sound article from 10 years ago listing 4 conspicuously missing features: track folders, fader groups, markers, track freezing. As far as I know these still haven't been added.

Thanks for the link. I think some of them have been dealt with:

Track folding for better overview: You can make tracks look like a line only, opening the ones you work with and reducing all others if you like.

Fader groups: If I want I can mark a group, give them the same color, and remove their faders while they keep their relative settings. I usually just make an extra mix channel and send a group's output (e.g. drums) through that one with some inserts. However, from this article it does seem that Reason had not got its SSL mixer yet.

Markers: That one may be missing. I don't use it, but I cannot find any function neither. Only the usual left and right locators.

Regarding freeze, you can freeze a track. It will render directly under the track freezed and auto mute the source by default (optional -can be unmuted).

Only for shared info. Again, it is not like I want to discuss whether Reason is cool for anyone but me, I just want to know what people think is missing.

Thanks again.

[SLiC]

It may be lacking as a DAW but they seem to be really pushing it as a rack instrument for other DAWS! The first main headline you come to when looking at Reason 11 is - ''Reason 11 - the perfect expansion to your DAW''

I don't need another ADW, but its everything in the rack for the price of a single VST (and the rack is even VST23)that's justifiable