Finally joining in on some WUP hate.

[ferez21]

I'm just talking from my personal experience, but if the plugins still work flawlessly, you can still use them and you don't have to pay anything.

A completely different story will be if Waves were charging you money for fundemental bug fixes that should definitely be a free, but as far as i have experienced, there are no major bugs in my Gold bundle (at least on Windows 10, YMMV).

I do have criticism about the installers and the whole Waveshell thing, but that's a different rant.

[jens]

Yes, I am not a huge fan of all that - multiple plugin versions and what not - at all either.

But still their plugins are mostly quality stuff that works flawlessly here and does exactly what it says on the tin and it can be had for very little money. Also I can be rather sure that they will stay in business and will keep supporting all their product basically until forever. If at some point I am forced to WUP the older stuff in order to be able to use it on newer OSes/ hardware, then so be it. That I will then consider more than fair enough.

[0degree]

*Sigh*

I give up.... on humans.

I think you're purposefully omitting the post that I write so let me quote it again:
(Why WUP is a problem)

Because:
- You pay for nothing which is unethical
- You have to pay WUP to resell the plugin which is based on the made up retail price (not sure how this is even legal)
- There are people like me that had no idea how it works
- You're stuck with tons of mixed versions and if you want to have one version for everything you have to WUP again
- You have a problem like the OP has which is a real thing
- For my account it's almost impossible to pick and "upgrade" to actually match WUP capped value and I can't even use third party retailers because they say "you have too many overlapping products"

I can't see any of those concerns addressed except for "it's psychological" and "you don't have to pay WUP". The second statement is simply false because you have to pay WUP for selling the plugin and because you have to WUP if you're on MacOS and there's a system update.

You don't reply to any of those issues and just add some noise that doesn't bring anything substantial here.

Edit: And I also believe potential buyers should be aware of that. I love their plugins but absolutely hate this "business model"

[Ploki]

I'd argue that what makes something pro or not today is about support. 24/7 developer access for technical issues? A pro needs that. it's a session, something doesn't work, you need it to work now. You should get experimental builds that fix your problem NOW.
If you do some music on the weekends you can wait a week or two for that.

Well, that was more or less my point.

Edit: minus the experimental builds perhaps - that's asking a bit much, no?

Idk, i got those from a handful of developers (five of them) when going to M1, and also before that when trying to nail one pesky bug out

[ferez21]

*Sigh*

I give up.... on humans.

I think you're purposefully omitting the post that I write so let me quote it again:
(Why WUP is a problem)

Because:
- You pay for nothing which is unethical
- You have to pay WUP to resell the plugin which is based on the made up retail price (not sure how this is even legal)
- There are people like me that had no idea how it works
- You're stuck with tons of mixed versions and if you want to have one version for everything you have to WUP again
- You have a problem like the OP has which is a real thing
- For my account it's almost impossible to pick and "upgrade" to actually match WUP capped value and I can't even use third party retailers because they say "you have too many overlapping products"

....because you have to pay WUP for selling the plugin

How is paying for WUP to sell a waves plugin different than paying 25$ per plugin when you transfer your Plugin Alliance plugins or paying $50 (!) Per plugin to transfer a Fabfilter plugin? I don't get it

[0degree]

How is paying for WUP to sell a waves plugin different than paying 25$ per plugin when you transfer your Plugin Alliance plugins or paying $50 (!) Per plugin to transfer a Fabfilter plugin? I don't get it

The answer is really simple - lots of devs don't charge money at all, some of them charge reasonable amounts and then we have Waves. I just checked my account and if wanted to sell Gold bundle I'd have to pay 90$ for the transfer. Seriously?

I think it's acutally even worse - it seems like the more time elapses the more "punished" you are for not paying the WUP

[ferez21]

How is paying for WUP to sell a waves plugin different than paying 25$ per plugin when you transfer your Plugin Alliance plugins or paying $50 (!) Per plugin to transfer a Fabfilter plugin? I don't get it

The answer is really simple - lots of devs don't charge money at all, some of them charge reasonable amounts and then we have Waves. I just checked my account and if wanted to sell Gold bundle I'd have to pay 90$ for the transfer. Seriously?

I think it's acutally even worse - it seems like the more time elapses the more "punished" you are for not paying the WUP

Try to calculate the amount of transfer fee someone will need to pay if selling 20 Plugin Alliance plugins at $25 a piece (more or less the number of plugins in the Gold bundle), but you never see anyone complaining about that because of very smart strategy of PA allegedly putting the responsibility on the buyer, even though as a seller the result is that you have to lower your prices because of that policy, so it's basically the same as paying a huge transfer fee, they just did it smarter (or sneakier rather).

[0degree]

Try to calculate the amount of transfer fee someone will need to pay if selling 20 Plugin Alliance plugins at $25 a piece (more or less the number of plugins in the Gold bundle), but you never see anyone complaining about that because of very smart strategy of PA allegedly putting the responsibility on the buyer, even though as a seller the result is that you have to lower your prices because of that policy, so it's basically the same as paying a huge transfer fee, they just did it smarter (or sneakier rather).

I just calculated - it's 50$ because it's capped. Which dev of the two is sneakier now?

[ferez21]

Try to calculate the amount of transfer fee someone will need to pay if selling 20 Plugin Alliance plugins at $25 a piece (more or less the number of plugins in the Gold bundle), but you never see anyone complaining about that because of very smart strategy of PA allegedly putting the responsibility on the buyer, even though as a seller the result is that you have to lower your prices because of that policy, so it's basically the same as paying a huge transfer fee, they just did it smarter (or sneakier rather).

I just calculated - it's 50$ because it's capped. Which dev of the two is sneakier now?

Haha well i didn't know it is capped, but my point is, Waves may not be the best in regards of updates/transfer, but they are definitely not the worst. You look at the Gold bundle as one piece when in fact it's 20+ separate plugins (for which you also received a substantial discount when purchasing), trust me, i was in the same boat as i once wanted to sell my Gold bundle too and decided not to bcause of the seemingly high fee, but i can understand where is it coming from.

[0degree]

Try to calculate the amount of transfer fee someone will need to pay if selling 20 Plugin Alliance plugins at $25 a piece (more or less the number of plugins in the Gold bundle), but you never see anyone complaining about that because of very smart strategy of PA allegedly putting the responsibility on the buyer, even though as a seller the result is that you have to lower your prices because of that policy, so it's basically the same as paying a huge transfer fee, they just did it smarter (or sneakier rather).

I just calculated - it's 50$ because it's capped. Which dev of the two is sneakier now?

Haha well i didn't know it is capped, but my point is, Waves may not be the best in regards of updates/transfer, but they are definitely not the worst. You look at the Gold bundle as one piece when in fact it's 20+ separate plugins (for which you also received a substantial discount when purchasing), trust me, i was in the same boat as i once wanted to sell my Gold bundle too and decided not to bcause of the seemingly high fee, but i can understand where is it coming from.

You haven't convinced me, but we have to learn to live with people we disagree with

[Ploki]

Try to calculate the amount of transfer fee someone will need to pay if selling 20 Plugin Alliance plugins at $25 a piece (more or less the number of plugins in the Gold bundle), but you never see anyone complaining about that because of very smart strategy of PA allegedly putting the responsibility on the buyer, even though as a seller the result is that you have to lower your prices because of that policy, so it's basically the same as paying a huge transfer fee, they just did it smarter (or sneakier rather).

I just calculated - it's 50$ because it's capped. Which dev of the two is sneakier now?

No its not. It caps at 8$/plugin with dynamic discounts. Selling 20 plugins is still 160$.
iLok is capped with 50$/transfer, regardless of numbers of plugins

@ferez21: a lot of people (incl me) complains about PA all the time.

[Ploki]

That’s why people are basically giving PA plugins away or for like 5$ and nobodt buys them. (Also because its nearly cheaper to just wait for another MEGA LEAP YEAR or whatever sale and get plugin cheaper than transfer fees)

[0degree]

Try to calculate the amount of transfer fee someone will need to pay if selling 20 Plugin Alliance plugins at $25 a piece (more or less the number of plugins in the Gold bundle), but you never see anyone complaining about that because of very smart strategy of PA allegedly putting the responsibility on the buyer, even though as a seller the result is that you have to lower your prices because of that policy, so it's basically the same as paying a huge transfer fee, they just did it smarter (or sneakier rather).

I just calculated - it's 50$ because it's capped. Which dev of the two is sneakier now?

No its not. It caps at 8$/plugin with dynamic discounts. Selling 20 plugins is still 160$.
iLok is capped with 50$/transfer, regardless of numbers of plugins

@ferez21: a lot of people (incl me) complains about PA all the time.

I stand corrected then. But anyway 90$ for a signle bundle is a joke and don't tell me there's 20+ plugins there - it's just one license transfer And again - I had no idea that I have to have WUP in order to sell anything

[jens]

- You have a problem like the OP has which is a real thing

Nope, not really - I own several V9 plugins which I could have ungraded to V10 as their WUp had not been expired yet when the update came but I did not because I was too lazy for that kind of hassle...
and I agree that it is a little annoying but then again it has no real practical implications for me... yes, it means I now need the legacy installer to install them on a new machine, but for several V9 plugins of mine there was no WUP anymore when V10 came, so for these I would need the legacy installer anyway and therefor it again does not really make any difference for me.

Transfer fee? Yes, that is generally somewhat unethical I agree, but again first of all Waves are far from being the worst in that regard and secondly: how much are you going to ask/get for plugins that can regularly be purchased for less than 29$? (and buy two, then you get a third for free)

If I purchase plugins at such a low price I know that I won't ever sell them. If in doubt, the best thing is to not purchase them in the first place. Only get them if you want to keep them.

The afore mentioned Fabfilter are certainly very different to that of course, as their transfer fee is already about twice as much as you have to pay for a Waves plugin. You don't see people complaining about that though. Some of they same people who keep whining about Waves/WUP have nothing but warm, cuddly love for Fabfilter.

[jens]

Idk, i got those from a handful of developers (five of them) when going to M1, and also before that when trying to nail one pesky bug out

Yes, I agree that this is a very nice thing - I don't agree however that because of this positive experience you should expect the same from every developer and for every issue you may run into.