Bitwig Studio 4 announced (+beta available)!

[pdxindy]

From Bitwig's site, emphasis my own. This should have been in the lede:

"And Native Apple Silicon support on Mac, even allowing Intel and ARM plug-ins to work side-by-side."

Yeah... even Logic doesn't do that!

Really? I thought Logic had a bridge plugin like they did when they moved the 64-bit a few years back. In theory it should work just like Bitwig and M1 plugins would be hosted inside of Logic. I remember reading that was the case but haven't tested it myself. I believe you need to put Logic in native mode for it work that way. In Rosetta mode it just runs the Intel version of Logic.

I could be wrong... my understanding is that in native mode in Logic, you cannot use rosetta plugins.

Native mode opens a bridge plugin (very similar to what Bitwig does where it spawns a separate process to launch the plugin) that opens the rosetta or intel version of the plugin. Rosetta mode obviously only has access to the intel plugins.

There have been reports that launching plugins in native is slower and more resource heavy for obvious reasons as it has to launch the bridge process and launch the plugin afterwards.

Good to know...

Although in my case, I'll only be installing native plugins when I get an Apple Silicon Mac.

[apoclypse]

From Bitwig's site, emphasis my own. This should have been in the lede:

"And Native Apple Silicon support on Mac, even allowing Intel and ARM plug-ins to work side-by-side."

Yeah... even Logic doesn't do that!

Really? I thought Logic had a bridge plugin like they did when they moved the 64-bit a few years back. In theory it should work just like Bitwig and M1 plugins would be hosted inside of Logic. I remember reading that was the case but haven't tested it myself. I believe you need to put Logic in native mode for it work that way. In Rosetta mode it just runs the Intel version of Logic.

I could be wrong... my understanding is that in native mode in Logic, you cannot use rosetta plugins.

Native mode opens a bridge plugin (very similar to what Bitwig does where it spawns a separate process to launch the plugin) that opens the rosetta or intel version of the plugin. Rosetta mode obviously only has access to the intel plugins.

There have been reports that launching plugins in native is slower and more resource heavy for obvious reasons as it has to launch the bridge process and launch the plugin afterwards.

Good to know...

Although in my case, I'll only be installing native plugins when I get an Apple Silicon Mac.

Since I also use Live and S1 I'll need both versions unfortunately until they make the transition. Hopefully by the time I get an Apple Silicon Mac later this year it will all be sorted and won't be an issue (though knowing NI they aren't making the transition for a while. They haven't even moved to VST3 yet for the love of Pete).

[syntonica]

Native mode opens a bridge plugin (very similar to what Bitwig does where it spawns a separate process to launch the plugin) that opens the rosetta or intel version of the plugin. Rosetta mode obviously only has access to the intel plugins.

There have been reports that launching plugins in native is slower and more resource heavy for obvious reasons as it has to launch the bridge process and launch the plugin afterwards.

I thought Logic only used Intel plugins in Rosetta mode, that native ARM mode could only use ARM plugs. If they are bridging them, then that's a good thing, but allowing the choice to run them unbridged once they've proven reliable in translation would be better.

Regardless, Logic is a bloaty mess threatening to collapse in upon itself like a gaseous giant. It really needs a rewrite like they gave FCPX, including new skins for all those old plugins. There's just a lot of cruft that needs to be sent to dev/null.

[pdxindy]

Good to know...

Although in my case, I'll only be installing native plugins when I get an Apple Silicon Mac.

Since I also use Live and S1 I'll need both versions unfortunately until they make the transition. Hopefully by the time I get an Apple Silicon Mac later this year it will all be sorted and won't be an issue (though knowing NI they aren't making the transition for a while. They haven't even moved to VST3 yet for the love of Pete).

I use Bitwig and Logic... so I only need Native AS plugins... I've prepared myself to drop NI when I get an AS Mac. I'm not expecting NI to get there until next year. Don't mind being surprised, but am prepared to let NI go permanently.

[pdxindy]

Regardless, Logic is a bloaty mess threatening to collapse in upon itself like a gaseous giant. It really needs a rewrite like they gave FCPX, including new skins for all those old plugins. There's just a lot of cruft that needs to be sent to dev/null.

When is the last time you used Logic? The new stuff is great!

[syntonica]

Regardless, Logic is a bloaty mess threatening to collapse in upon itself like a gaseous giant. It really needs a rewrite like they gave FCPX, including new skins for all those old plugins. There's just a lot of cruft that needs to be sent to dev/null.

When is the last time you used Logic? The new stuff is great!

I try using it occasionally. I'm constantly swimming in junk cluttering up my screen! I definitely need to sit down with it and configure it and make an init template to my taste before I try doing anything serious in it again.

I've poked the new samplers. They are indeed great! Time to kill off EXS24! Next on the chopping block should be Ultrabeat. Even when it first came out, I needed a magnifying glass to find anything.

I'm also mad that I broke down and bought Mainstage just for the auto-sampler, only to have it show up in the next Logic update.

[pdxindy]

I've poked the new samplers. They are indeed great! Time to kill off EXS24! Next on the chopping block should be Ultrabeat. Even when it first came out, I needed a magnifying glass to find anything.

Ultrabeat is there now for legacy purposes... it is already superceded.

[MuzikFreq]

Wonder if they will add normalize audio in and out of the sampler

[apoclypse]

Regardless, Logic is a bloaty mess threatening to collapse in upon itself like a gaseous giant. It really needs a rewrite like they gave FCPX, including new skins for all those old plugins. There's just a lot of cruft that needs to be sent to dev/null.

When is the last time you used Logic? The new stuff is great!

I try using it occasionally. I'm constantly swimming in junk cluttering up my screen! I definitely need to sit down with it and configure it and make an init template to my taste before I try doing anything serious in it again.

I've poked the new samplers. They are indeed great! Time to kill off EXS24! Next on the chopping block should be Ultrabeat. Even when it first came out, I needed a magnifying glass to find anything.

I'm also mad that I broke down and bought Mainstage just for the auto-sampler, only to have it show up in the next Logic update.

It's definitely been a while since you've used it. ESX24 is already gone from Logic and like pdxindy said Ultrabeat is just there for legacy purposes. It's definitely going to get cut at some point. You should be using DMD.

[apoclypse]

How do people feel about the Fill button? I'm of tow minds about it. Like I appreciate it being there and the thought behind but like Swing/Groove I'm not a fan of it being a global option versus being per track. What if I just the drums to fill, or a specificities instrument. I would imagine I would have to do s separate clip or scene for that.

[pdxindy]

How do people feel about the Fill button? I'm of tow minds about it. Like I appreciate it being there and the thought behind but like Swing/Groove I'm not a fan of it being a global option versus being per track. What if I just the drums to fill, or a specificities instrument. I would imagine I would have to do s separate clip or scene for that.

I'll have to use it some to have any definitive opinion. Swing Groove definitely per track. Fill, I would say global is fine. The similar feature on my Elektron boxes is global too.

[machinesworking]

I use Bitwig and Logic... so I only need Native AS plugins... I've prepared myself to drop NI when I get an AS Mac. I'm not expecting NI to get there until next year. Don't mind being surprised, but am prepared to let NI go permanently.

I can't let go of Kontakt. Too many orchestral libraries over the years.
Cinesamples bras and strings, KH Concert Strings 2, SoundIron women's choirs, 8DIO boys choir, Spitfire Albion Tundra, and that's just the start of it.. I'm keeping this old Mac Pro as a VEP slave for Kontakt, UVI, and East West Play libraries so I don't have to wait for Apple Silicon support.

But yeah, NI are probably going to be absolute last in line for native support. They came in near last in every other change Apple has done... their GUI code is by their own admission 15 years old.

[machinesworking]

Yes I know that but it doesn't do it like every other DAW on the planet does it by just dragging the object you are actually working on. The fact that it's not immediately obvious makes it a quality of life issue imo because new users will keep asking the same questions every time.

The expected behavior is that if I select multiple tracks and I move the volume slider or returns or whatever it should affect all selected tracks. Just like it's expected behavior that if I select multiple tracks and right click to delete, it will delete all selected tracks. That's how anyone who has been using WIMP application have been trained and it's expected behavior.

Bitwig already does this in certain instances, like if I have multiple audio clips selected and edit the fade handle on one of them it affects all of them. It's how object oriented design is supposed to work.

I guess I'm used to the older DAWs like Logic and DP because the fact that Bitwig has an info panel that you use for multiple selection choices doesn't bother me. I honestly don't mind because you can mix the selected tracks like volume etc. while still retaining the selection and the ability to do a master fade with the info panel.

I recall you were shocked I didn't know about Logics new way of dealing with multi outs from a AU in Logic, and it is IMO still not intuitive but it does make sense and in some ways it not acting like a traditional DAW. Anyway it's not unusable and didn't take me too long to figure out. Bitwigs way of addressing MIDI to a multi midi input VSTi is pretty weird as well.

I guess my point is they all have some weird thing they do that isn't just like the others, Live long ago lost the plot in terms of object oriented design, and there are quite a few areas in Bitwig, Logic, DP, Reaper etc. etc. where it's a side journey into the ether.

[worldshaker]

Very cool update. It's... missing musical scales? Lol, they should also add Cubase's chord chooser, too.

[syntonica]

It's definitely been a while since you've used it. ESX24 is already gone from Logic and like pdxindy said Ultrabeat is just there for legacy purposes. It's definitely going to get cut at some point. You should be using DMD.

I glanced at DMD, saw the 4x4 pads and dismissed it as sample-only. Didn't realize you could plug any plugin into a pad to generate the sound.

Maybe if I actually spent a weekend with Logic, I wouldn't need a backup DAW. When I first got Logic 5 Silver (I think), I barricaded myself in my room and read the manual from cover to cover before I even installed it. It wasn't very long before I upgraded fully for all the toys.

I'm still on 10.5 since I can't upgrade the OS as I'd lose a ton of other software, so I'm stuck on Mojave on my laptop until I get a new laptop.

But there's still leftovers from the olden days, things that just were too darn complicated for simple tasks. When I've got the new computer, I'm going to be demoing Bitwig, along with a few other ARM-compatible DAWs to see which one I get along with the most. I've ignored usability in software far too long.