Bitwig Studio 4 announced (+beta available)!

[machinesworking]

It's definitely been a while since you've used it. ESX24 is already gone from Logic and like pdxindy said Ultrabeat is just there for legacy purposes. It's definitely going to get cut at some point. You should be using DMD.

I glanced at DMD, saw the 4x4 pads and dismissed it as sample-only. Didn't realize you could plug any plugin into a pad to generate the sound.

Maybe if I actually spent a weekend with Logic, I wouldn't need a backup DAW. When I first got Logic 5 Silver (I think), I barricaded myself in my room and read the manual from cover to cover before I even installed it. It wasn't very long before I upgraded fully for all the toys.

I'm still on 10.5 since I can't upgrade the OS as I'd lose a ton of other software, so I'm stuck on Mojave on my laptop until I get a new laptop.

But there's still leftovers from the olden days, things that just were too darn complicated for simple tasks. When I've got the new computer, I'm going to be demoing Bitwig, along with a few other ARM-compatible DAWs to see which one I get along with the most. I've ignored usability in software far too long.

What are you currently running?

I'm kinda in the same boat. I love me an underdog, but my main squeeze DP is pretty long in the tooth these days. The developers haven't given it enough love in the latest version, over two years old and still sort of in limbo.
Bitwig has been my main MPE DAW, bought Logic and Reaper as well to try some decent native MPE DAWs out, and because I also used Logic back in 4.7 to 8 days. Yes there are still some legacy aspect to it that bother me to no end, and no matter the sheen they put on it, it's still a DAW that has "hidden" features, i.e. things that you need to know otherwise you think they don't exist at all, i.e. bad UX elements. But! there are a lot of solid improvements that can't be overlooked, the DMD, the AI Drummer, the revamped much better EXS replacement, the simple sampler, the grid with clips like Live and Bitwig, Alchemy, articulation maps, better stretch algorithms etc. etc. etc.

The weird stuff, it's still by channel only for MIDI input, so no on the fly ELP style controller setups like you can do in Bitwig etc. There are thousands of millennials making influencer style how to videos which is both a great thing and a PITA, lots of wasted time getting to know the person hyping their patreon etc.

Bitwig has good bones though, I think that can't be overstated.

[apoclypse]

Yes I know that but it doesn't do it like every other DAW on the planet does it by just dragging the object you are actually working on. The fact that it's not immediately obvious makes it a quality of life issue imo because new users will keep asking the same questions every time.

The expected behavior is that if I select multiple tracks and I move the volume slider or returns or whatever it should affect all selected tracks. Just like it's expected behavior that if I select multiple tracks and right click to delete, it will delete all selected tracks. That's how anyone who has been using WIMP application have been trained and it's expected behavior.

Bitwig already does this in certain instances, like if I have multiple audio clips selected and edit the fade handle on one of them it affects all of them. It's how object oriented design is supposed to work.

I guess I'm used to the older DAWs like Logic and DP because the fact that Bitwig has an info panel that you use for multiple selection choices doesn't bother me. I honestly don't mind because you can mix the selected tracks like volume etc. while still retaining the selection and the ability to do a master fade with the info panel.

I recall you were shocked I didn't know about Logics new way of dealing with multi outs from a AU in Logic, and it is IMO still not intuitive but it does make sense and in some ways it not acting like a traditional DAW. Anyway it's not unusable and didn't take me too long to figure out. Bitwigs way of addressing MIDI to a multi midi input VSTi is pretty weird as well.

I guess my point is they all have some weird thing they do that isn't just like the others, Live long ago lost the plot in terms of object oriented design, and there are quite a few areas in Bitwig, Logic, DP, Reaper etc. etc. where it's a side journey into the ether.

To be fair to Logic multi-out instruments have pretty much worked the same way since version 8. So I wasn’t so much shocked, there was consternation as to why this was “new” to people since I’ve been using mulitouts the same way in Logic since kontakt 2. LPX didn’t change much in that regard. So you can imagine my surprise.

However I get what you mean. Logic for example still doesn’t have gain handles on audio clips after years (decades at this point) of begging from users. The workflow is as clunky as Bitwig in that regard as you can only change gain via the inspector.

I just think that they are way too many QoL features missing in Bitwig sometimes. Hopefully they address it sometime during the 4.x upgrade period.

[syntonica]

Basically, I got Logic X to be able to open up my old Logic 5/6/7 projects if I needed to. There's a ton of missing plugins, but nothing I don't have replacements for. I was hoping Apple had improved a lot of the UIX issues, but no, still just candy-colored lipgloss on the original pig.

I am currently using MuLab, which has everything I need (other than talent) and not a lot that I don't. And it has automation clips, which my brain just adores using! It's also modular like Bitwig, and now that Bitwig has exposed that aspect, I'm much more interested. I am waiting for the release of version 9, which has been delayed. It's currently VST2 only, which isn't going to work for me any longer with Steinberg doing their best to kill it in favor of VST3, which has been out how long now, and it's still not commonly supported?!?. So, I need either VST3 or AU added, as well as M1-compatibility. Rather than constantly annoying Jo, I'm spending my time finding a backup plan.

My other candidate is Studio One, but it has a few things about it that I'm not sure I'll get along with.

As for DP, I'd have to upgrade, but with MOTU and their tendency to let software die on the vine (basically, Unisyn and all their instrument plugins), I'm not sure if M1-support is in the offing anytime soon, which would be a shame as their core business has always been Mac. I love it, feature-wise. It has everything I could ever need, but their routing paradigm is old and cumbersome and it just annoys me that when adding an instrument track, I get two for the price of one. I hate clutter!

One of my day jobs is programming, so when I open my DAW, I expect everything to work right and look right OOTB. So, Reaper is right out. I spent my 30-day trial futzing about with menus and skins, which never worked right. The Windows would squirm about as I switched between them. It's great that it's fully configurable, but their default should have been updated to something SWS-like ages ago. I shouldn't have to spend more than a say configuring my DAW to where I can get started using it.

[WasteLand]

lot of threads, i am barging in this one.

how strictly is bitwig for upgrades, my upgrade plan expires at june 26. V4 is expected end Q2/begin Q3, it can land on june 26, or a week later, or even later.

has anyone experience with this?

i am fine with the 3.3.x version, although i thought, i would do the upgrade plan when 4 arrives...
but it is coming too soon...

so, i won't weep, but still, if you can get it... so? experiences? is june 26 very fixed (it must be in a way, but 2 days later? o well i will not hold it against bitwig, as i said, still working with 3.3.x and gives me what i want, next to all other DAW's i have..)

I'm in the same boat as you (June 17 expiration). I e-mailed them to ask, I'll report back.

thanks! i wanted to do the same thing. i wait for your report...

[machinesworking]

To be fair to Logic multi-out instruments have pretty much worked the same way since version 8. So I wasn’t so much shocked, there was consternation as to why this was “new” to people since I’ve been using mulitouts the same way in Logic since kontakt 2. LPX didn’t change much in that regard. So you can imagine my surprise.

I started using Logic a 4.7 to 8. I just bought a copy of Logic 10, and was so upset at v8 for some UX choices they made I barely used it to be honest. So I missed the change from having to wire the environment channels to basic MIDI tracks to using these weird hybrid instrument tracks for MIDI and audio multi output of AUi's like Kontakt. Once you get used to it it's pretty cool really, but IMO it's far from intuitive. Even though it has advantages in terms of multi instruments I still think part of the reason it's not intuitive is because it had to work this way in Logic because of Logic's MIDI input port issues.

However I get what you mean. Logic for example still doesn’t have gain handles on audio clips after years (decades at this point) of begging from users. The workflow is as clunky as Bitwig in that regard as you can only change gain via the inspector.

Yeah I just found that out, DP to be fair just within the last 4 years or so got audio clip gain handles.

I just think that they are way too many QoL features missing in Bitwig sometimes. Hopefully they address it sometime during the 4.x upgrade period.

I think there's always some UX issues with DAWs. I wouldn't call them QoL features, because in the instance we're talking about there's a simple non time consuming solution in the DAW. The Info panel in Logic and Bitwig are much more like control panels than in other DAWs. It comes down to UX decisions. One explanation of Logic around v4.7 when I got into it sticks with me to this day, I want UX of course but more than that I want to be able to do the things, whatever those things are, and complexity always brings not only power, but some learning curve. I believe that too much has been sacrificed in the name of UX recently because flatly of the overwhelming success of Ableton Live with it's UX simplicity. I loved Lives fantastic real time engine, it's time stretching ability, and it's interest in live performance features, but I have to be honest, it's insistence on nested features without shortcuts to expand, subwindows that show tiny piano rolls or 'folded' MIDI, it's insistence on UX simplicity valued over long term 'pro user' complexity, all of that bothered me. Using Logic you should relate to this a bit, for the most part it still has a super fast UX, once you start getting into shortcuts you can start to fly around the interface. Logics in this weird place now where it still has all that but it's trying UX things on to make life easier for newbies, and some of it is just a big WTF? What they did with the tools shortcuts for instance, IMO two different shortcuts to access the same thing I did in one is not an improvement, but I digress.

So like I mentioned, with the way selections are now in Bitwig what you selected can be globally changed and by carefully grabbing the volume or solo, mute, etc. you can still adjust things in the selection whilst retaining the global selection. It's almost like VCA faders. In a DAW like Live I don't see any way to do this? I'm messing with it right now and selected items all conform to the global selection no matter what modifier key I press. so in more complex selctions of tracks you're having to deselect then reselect to do the same thing you can do in one step in Bitwig. IMO it's slight complexity that doesn't sacrifice features, to use the Info panel for global selections.

[daily patcher]

However I get what you mean. Logic for example still doesn’t have gain handles on audio clips after years (decades at this point) of begging from users. The workflow is as clunky as Bitwig in that regard as you can only change gain via the inspector.

If you're referring to what I think you are, Bitwig actually now edges out Logic in this regard and your information may be outdated. You can just drag from the top anywhere on an audio clip to adjust gain.

[pdxindy]

However I get what you mean. Logic for example still doesn’t have gain handles on audio clips after years (decades at this point) of begging from users. The workflow is as clunky as Bitwig in that regard as you can only change gain via the inspector.

If you're referring to what I think you are, Bitwig actually now edges out Logic in this regard and your information may be outdated. You can just drag from the top anywhere on an audio clip to adjust gain.

Same for audio events inside the clip. Plus you can add randomization as well.

[EnGee]

Bitwig 4 beta is running great natively on M1. I uninstalled v3 though so I can't compare them both, but it feels a snappier than the Rosetta one. I went fast through PolyGrid presets and they change smoothly and run with low cpu. Nothing scientific
though, just a feeling.

I don't use comping and never use "probability" or randomness in music except sample and hold sometimes in modulations, so the new features are not useful for me. However, I like the direction is going Bitwig

[midiboss]

Any sign of GHOST clips?

[antic604]

Any sign of GHOST clips?

No

[machinesworking]

Any sign of GHOST clips?

lets' hope for a MIDI in the Grid and logical additions like this in the coming months. Makes sense to me anyway.

[_leras]

I would love to see performance metrics on M1 Bitwig vs Intel.

You can pretty much guarantee that will happen on a post! (windows user here preparing to be jealous....)

Serious question... Has CPU been a performance bottle neck for you? And if so what type of computer do you have?

I haven't had CPU be a limiting factor for Bitwig or Cubase for many years now. I also can't even think of a plug in that I really notice uses a lot of resources.

(*Oh maybe the free sga1566 distortion...)

[_leras]

Any sign of GHOST clips?

lets' hope for a MIDI in the Grid and logical additions like this in the coming months. Makes sense to me anyway.

I may pester them on this topic...

But I think operators are a cool start.

Also midi related:
Piano roll improvements
Using a clip as a midi device would be very cool to me
Groove/swing/shuffle just in midi would be so helpful

[SLiC]

I would love to see performance metrics on M1 Bitwig vs Intel.

You can pretty much guarantee that will happen on a post! (windows user here preparing to be jealous....)

Serious question... Has CPU been a performance bottle neck for you? And if so what type of computer do you have?

I haven't had CPU be a limiting factor for Bitwig or Cubase for many years now. I also can't even think of a plug in that I really notice uses a lot of resources.

(*Oh maybe the free sga1566 distortion...)

It can be with some of the usual suspects, the odd Phase Plant patch, Serum, Diva in HQ Mode...but nothing a bounce won't cure...I also run other software that benefits from fast CPU's, but personally I would never use a MAC as a main computer as I built my own audio PC and it is absolutely perfect for what I do and was under a grand,.

However, I did try a MS Surface as a portable/traveling solution and it was pretty poor with CPU/heat - so I would consider a MACBook Air effectively as an ipad replacement (use whilst holding) that can run a DAW, so interested to know how fast, how small and how hot!

[_leras]

Although in my case, I'll only be installing native plugins when I get an Apple Silicon Mac.

Serious question, why would you limit yourself in such a way if other plug ins still ran fine, just not 'native'?